Jennifer Lien In Legal Trouble Again

[Lynx]

The whole thing about it being indecent that Lien showed her breasts is blatantly sexist. If a man in the same situation had gone shirtless it would be a non issue.

Conversely, if a man had started swinging his dick around in a drunken stupor to show his annoyance at the neighbours, he'd have been escorted away by the police.... and an angry, violent mob with pitchforks.

Let's not pretend she didn't do anything wrong here.

She did.

I have to agree with Hux here. We shouldn't pretend that she didn't do any wrong. Whe can always discuss our theories why she acted the way she did but not pretend that it dind't happen or defend her actions in this matter.

Even if you're angry at your neighbors and wish that they would move to a hot place, flashing is not OK, especially not in front of kids.

She did know that the cops were coming that day they did. Refuse to get dressed and have to be carried to the police car and tell the cops that she wold kill them is not OK. That won't look good at the trial.

The same for her previous arrest. Being stopped for reckless driving is one thing, deliberately ramming a police car in an attempt to get away is the absolutely worst thing to do in a situation like that. I wouldn't do it to the tin soldier cops where I live even if I was as angry as I ever could be and I would not do it to the US cops who are much tougher to deal with.

However, we should take into consideration that those events shows that poor Jennifer have some serious issues which I really hope she can get help with and recover from. Let us pray for that.

borgboy wrote:

Lynx, have you read the Voyager: String Theory trilogy? It really redeems Kes from Fury and explains away the wretched things done to Kes. They're also really well written with other plots going on too. I'm going to re-read those down the road in my rewatch/read marathon. I haven't gotten to them yet but I also know that Kes makes a small but important appearance in the new Voyager relaunch novels.
I hate to hear that all this real life tragedy could drive you from watching Voyager again. I hate to hear anyone lose contact with something they love. Whatever Lien's real life problems, Kes is still her legacy of a very positive and (for me anyways) an inspiring character. I will rewatch those episode and see the good in them.

yes, I have read the String Theory books and they came up with a plausible explanation about the events in that insulting episode.
But I must admit that if I want to read new Voyager stories, then I prefer to read my own. Unfortunately I have to little time to write and for the moment all writing inspiration is gone.

The same for watching Voyager. Maybe in the future when all this have settled.
I really liked Voyager from the start and have remained a fan, despite all dissapointments but now I've started to wonder if it's worth it.

Right now I'm both sad and angry over this.

Sad because I really feel sorry for Jennifer. She had such a talent and really gave life to the character Kes and now all that is wasted in some horrible way.

Angry because I know there are at least four people from my past who are enjoying this and laughing at me right now (and att Jennifer Lien/Kes as well) and I just don't want them to have that pleasure.

 

[hux]

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

Remind me, where in the world is an adult flashing children NOT viewed as a serious crime?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Let's not pretend she didn't do anything wrong here.

She did.

But let's not pretend, that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

Penises are disgusting and violent.

They spew waste or explode pleasure.

Talk about bipolar.

It gets the job done, in anything other than pitch dark and you're designated sexually cretinous.

Before that stupid sexual revolution, no non Frenchman in the world had ever seen their own penis.

Which is why there's always piss on the toilet seat.

Breasts on the other hand are baby's first thermos.

Nurturing and comforting.

Hardly a threat, not revolting and pleasantly inoffensive.

Worst expletives ever.

Fair to middling Earmuffs.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

Remind me, where in the world is an adult flashing children NOT viewed as a serious crime?

Where is your closest Nude Beach?

Besides, it all depends on your definition of "flashing".

I doubt Jennifer was trying to achieve sexual gratification from exhibiting herself.

Considering she was screaming "Woo-Hoo!" everytime she released her tits, I think it's more likely that she trying to win or end a conversation with the adult who was yelling back at her.

 

[JWPlatt]

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

Remind me, where in the world is an adult flashing children NOT viewed as a serious crime?

Quite a few, and the occasional social cause events such a the World Naked Bike Ride. The offense itself is created by a repressive culture where the sight of the human body is offensive instead of beautiful and natural. If it were not offensive, and nudity were considered healthy and normal, as it is in a great many places and native tribes, the flasher would not have such a weapon. It is not possible in naturist areas where families, yes families, enjoy their freedom.

 

[Squiggy]

Let's not pretend she didn't do anything wrong here.

She did.

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

We're not. But it was a crime where she lives.

You lives by the rules in your own community...not the rules in Norway, Saudi Arabia, or China.

 

[hux]

Where is your closest Nude Beach?

Besides, it all depends on your definition of "flashing".

I doubt Jennifer was trying to achieve sexual gratification from exhibiting herself.

Considering she was screaming "Woo-Hoo!" everytime she released her tits, I think it's more likely that she trying to win or end a conversation with the adult who was yelling back at her.

Quite a few, and the occasional social cause events such a the World Naked Bike Ride. The offense itself is created by a repressive culture where the sight of the human body is offensive instead of beautiful and natural. If it were not offensive, and nudity were considered healthy and normal, as it is in a great many places and native tribes, the flasher would not have such a weapon. It is not possible in naturist areas where families, yes families, enjoy their freedom.

Being naked and... flashing children in the back garden whilst spurting out offensive language are not the same thing.

Try again. Where is the latter not taken seriously as a crime?

 

[Triskelion]

Ha ha, rules in China. Oh do go on.

 

[Squiggy]

Ha ha, rules in China. Oh do go on.

They more rules on somethings and less rules on other things.

 

[ihno]

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

Remind me, where in the world is an adult flashing children NOT viewed as a serious crime?

Others have to me before "it's a sex crime". Yes, it's a sex crime in the USA and it happened there and the law enforcement just did their job etc.

But if you can still have a different view on the matter.

Rape, murder etc. are things that are most likely considered serious crimes, whereever you go.

But this is very specific matter that is a matter only in the USA (maybe China and Russia too, don't know).

Every law is a law because some parliament etc. had decided so at some time in the past. But that decision was based on the very specfic culture, tradition etc. pp. We have that in every 20th episode of Star Trek.

I stick with what she might have done, what's in the news.
Scaring off her neighbour and showing her ass/breasts to her neighbour, while some children might have watched (or not).

And the country where this would not bring you to jail or "two week detention" is Germany.

§ 12 Criminal Code defines, what a crime is. A crime is where you get "1 year +"
The law in question is § 183 Criminal Code. That is "up to one year", so it's an offense at best and cannot be applied to women at all.
And even if it could, it wouldn't work, a) because there was most likely no "plan" behind the action of Lien, b) it only works if you exposed yourself for sexual self-gratification.

The continental law is much different from the anglosaxon law. Ours is very much based on paragraphs.

I'm pretty sure you can check the penal codes of other European countries and will find nothing different there.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Where is your closest Nude Beach?

Besides, it all depends on your definition of "flashing".

I doubt Jennifer was trying to achieve sexual gratification from exhibiting herself.

Considering she was screaming "Woo-Hoo!" everytime she released her tits, I think it's more likely that she trying to win or end a conversation with the adult who was yelling back at her.

Quite a few, and the occasional social cause events such a the World Naked Bike Ride. The offense itself is created by a repressive culture where the sight of the human body is offensive instead of beautiful and natural. If it were not offensive, and nudity were considered healthy and normal, as it is in a great many places and native tribes, the flasher would not have such a weapon. It is not possible in naturist areas where families, yes families, enjoy their freedom.

Being naked and... flashing children in the back garden whilst spurting out offensive language are not the same thing.

Try again. Where is the latter not taken seriously as a crime?

Front yard/sidewalk while many other nearby neighbours watched from their own front yards. She was arguing with an adult while children were present.

Sure what she did is a crime, it's just a question if there's a context where it's a crime not worth reporting to the fuzz.

Do you ring 911 everytime you see someone speeding or smoking a joint?

Was Jennifer a drunk idiot having a laugh, or was she a sexual predator trying to defile children?

 

[ihno]

Quite a few, and the occasional social cause events such a the World Naked Bike Ride. The offense itself is created by a repressive culture where the sight of the human body is offensive instead of beautiful and natural. If it were not offensive, and nudity were considered healthy and normal, as it is in a great many places and native tribes, the flasher would not have such a weapon. It is not possible in naturist areas where families, yes families, enjoy their freedom.

Thank you.

I can't edit my post #231 - the field is empty. I hope it's not empty for you as well.

 

[stardream]

Friendly reminder that this is Eastern Tennessee we're talking about which should not be confused with mainstream American culture.

I speak as someone who knows the area and who has relatives living there.

No, not everyone there is like 'that' and we don't want to paint with broad brushes and throw down stereotypes but it is a place apart...along with several other areas in close proximatey.

 

[SeerSGB]

Let's not pretend she didn't do anything wrong here.

She did.

But let's not pretend that this would be a major crime everywhere in the world either.

We're not. But it was a crime where she lives.

You lives by the rules in your own community...not the rules in Norway, Saudi Arabia, or China.

Tennesse's rule

“Nudity” or “state of nudity” means the showing of the bare human male or female genitals or pubic area with less than a fully opaque covering, the showing of the female breast with less than a fully opaque covering of the areola, or the showing of the covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state. “Nudity” or “state of nudity” does not include a mother in the act of nursing the mother's
baby; and

Let this sink in: the showing of the covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state.

That means a man with a visible hard-on can go to jail. That's the state I, and Jennifer Lien, live in people. We're not exactly living in a progressive area when it comes to nudity and/or sex.

 

[Squiggy]

Why do you think I left?

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's just a warrant.

Day in court or plead it out.

It's a while till a judge decides if she's guilty or innocent.

If it's unavoidable, if she's going to lose in court down the line and then go to jail for several years for releasing her puppies, then how the police collected her in the raw buff, is now completely totally understandable.

They required a touch of education on what nudity really looks like.

 

[hux]

Rape, murder etc. are things that are most likely considered serious crimes, whereever you go.

But this is very specific matter that is a matter only in the USA (maybe China and Russia too, don't

This is nonsense. If you start flashing kids, it is taken very seriously everywhere for obvious reasons. If the police determine that you are not a sexual weirdo (and it was just incidental to your outburst) then the charge of being a sex pest will not be be pursued. I see no reason to believe this won't also be the case in America.

Front yard/sidewalk while many other nearby neighbours watched from their own front yards. She was arguing with an adult while children were present.

Sure what she did is a crime, it's just a question if there's a context where it's a crime not worth reporting to the fuzz.

That's the charge that needs to be determined. If they conclude that she was just a pissed-up nut-flake being a bit weird then I see no reason to believe that she will be dragged to paedo prison and labelled for life. The assumption here seems to be that Americans are slightly less grown up about sex and nudity than the civilised world. This is patronising. If she is not a sex-crazed child-sex freak then i see no reason to believe that this won't be taken into account.

Do you ring 911 everytime you see someone speeding or smoking a joint?

I ring 999 for all things that I deem unacceptable. I ring it when I see people with bad haircuts.

Was Jennifer a drunk idiot having a laugh, or was she a sexual predator trying to defile children?

Probably the former but until that can be determine that... they have to take this kind of thing very seriously.

This is not an American thing. Paranoia about children and sex is now very much a global paranoia.

 

[ihno]

Friendly reminder that this is Eastern Tennessee we're talking about which should not be confused with mainstream American culture.

I speak as someone who knows the area and who has relatives living there.

No, not everyone there is like 'that' and we don't want to paint with broad brushes and throw down stereotypes but it is a place apart...along with several other areas in close proximatey.

Yes, I know that that States have a a complex structure and there are differences in many aspects.

@SeerSGB: Yes, if I go to another country I follow the laws of that place if I want to have a nice trip. But that doesn't mean that I have to "respect" them intellectually. And in the end every place has "odd" laws.


http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=11285344&postcount=231

 

[ihno]

This is nonsense. If you start flashing kids, it is taken very seriously everywhere for obvious reasons. If the police determine that you are not a sexual weirdo (and it was just incidental to your outburst) then the charge of being a sex pest will not be be presumed. I see no reason to believe this won't also be the case in America.

I even gave you the paragraph numbers of the German Penal Code: § 12, 183 German Penal Code.

It's called a proof. I guess that was futile.

But everybody can check if I was talking nonsense or not.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This is not an American thing. Paranoia about children and sex is now very much a global paranoia.

The parent was present.

Usually with molestation, there's a question of credibility because of imagination and exaggeration. A childs word that it happened vs. an adults word that it didn't.

Because the parent was present, and a dozen neighbours, who somehow none of them had cellphones to record these events, it's not a question of a sneaky person getting unverifiable thrills. There is an accurate account.

It's just weird and takes me all the way back to "She wants to go to jail."