Jenna Mitchell - hey, wait a second...

[UssGlenn]

Most of the casting is Canadian.

True, now, but was starting counting from TOS, and the first 5 series are in LA. Though now that you mention it, Toronto has a very large asian population, around 35%. But we still don't know the breakdown of the acting pool.

No, it should do one of two things: 1) find a way to represent all of these racial groups without centering one over others [you know, the way ST has historically centered whites over other racial groups], or 2) reflect the actual world percentages of these racial rather than the racial group percentages of only one nation.

Are racial hiring quotas even legal in Canada?

 

[Racefuel]

Canada has the Employment Equity Act which requires and encourages things like recruiting from ethnic communities, multilingual communications, etc.

Actual required ratios and quotas, I'm not sure

 

[Sci]

Are racial hiring quotas even legal in Canada?

People often talk about quotas as though they are bad per se without considering context.

If a quota ensures white supremacy, or ensures a disproportionate representation of some groups over others, that is a bad thing because it promotes systemic discrimination.

If a quota ensures equality, that is not a bad thing because it prevents systemic discrimination.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Besides, Gary doesn't join the crew until Kirk becomes captain.

Maybe. He served with Spock for years. Perhaps prior to Kirk assuming command of the Enterprise.

Yeah, in my mind, this is what happened. Gary Mitchell was assigned to the Enterprise before Kirk. Kirk asked for Mitchell on his first command (the small destroyer Kirk commanded before the Enterprise, according to the TOS Writer's Guide), but he didn't get him. I personally love the idea that before TOS Gary Mitchell knew Spock better than Kirk did.

As for Jenna Mitchell, she could easily be Gary's sister.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, in my mind, this is what happened. Gary Mitchell was assigned to the Enterprise before Kirk. Kirk asked for Mitchell on his first command (the small destroyer Kirk commanded before the Enterprise, according to the TOS Writer's Guide), but he didn't get him. I personally love the idea that before TOS Gary Mitchell knew Spock better than Kirk did.

As for Jenna Mitchell, she could easily be Gary's sister.

I think she and Kyle ran off together. Though Kyle did get a name drop in “Lost In Translation”.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

If a quota ensures equality, that is not a bad thing because it prevents systemic discrimination.

Like it or not, most human beings who are in the position to hire other human beings, even if they show no signs of overt bigotry, tend to hire people who look and talk like themselves. That's just human nature. Some of us recognize and acknowledge our own latent tendencies towards racism and sexism, and go out of our way to avoid acting on those tendencies. If it takes affirmative action, or even outright quotas, to promote equality and diversity, then bring them on.

That does not mean that I particularly care for casting actors who look and sound nothing like the characters portrayed, especially in cases where the characters are historic figures, but even in cases where the characters are simply already well-established. (I do, however, strongly approve of adopting a policy of totally disregarding the gender and/or ethnicity of actors in those rare cases of gender-neutral and/or ethnicity-neutral characters, most notably "Leading Player" in Schwartz & Hirson's Pippin, and I likewise am delighted at the idea that Neil Simon has done multiple versions of The Odd Couple, adjusted to fit the actors. And yes, I might actually see the version of Shakespeare's Hamlet that's postulated at the end of the movie, Outrageous Fortune.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Does the Mitchel Family Line consistently craft babies with high ESP scores?

If Jenna is Garry = High Esp.
If Jenna is a biological sister or cousin it's 50/50 whether her ESP is on par with Gary.
If Jenna is an adopted sister, wife or no relation, then it's highly likely that her ESP is lower that Garry and Elizabeths.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Or Mitchel is just a common surname.

Just ask Joe Buck.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

But with regard to Gary Mitchell, see CLB's The Higher Frontier.

 

[FederationHistorian]

No, it should do one of two things: 1) find a way to represent all of these racial groups without centering one over others [you know, the way ST has historically centered whites over other racial groups], or 2) reflect the actual world percentages of these racial rather than the racial group percentages of only one nation.

Looking at the SNW cast, including recurring…

- one Latina (ortegas)
- two black people (Uhura, M’Benga)
- three Asians (La’an, Jenna, Kyle)
- four white people (Pike,Chapel, Sam, recurring character Jim Kirk)
- three white people playing an alien (Una, Spock, Pelia)
- one south Asian playing an alien (T’Pring)

Does this represent statistics today, or it there still a problem?

 

[Sci]

Looking at the SNW cast, including recurring…

- one Latina (ortegas)
- two black people (Uhura, M’Benga)
- three Asians (La’an, Jenna, Kyle)
- four white people (Pike,Chapel, Sam, recurring character Jim Kirk)
- three white people playing an alien (Una, Spock, Pelia)
- one south Asian playing an alien (T’Pring)

Does this represent statistics today, or it there still a problem?

I do not agree with including Jenna, Kyle, Sam, Jim, Pelia, or T'Pring. None of these roles are part of the principal cast.

The principal cast's racial breakdown is:

• White: 5/9 (~55.56%)
• Asian: 1/9 (~11.11%)
• Black: 2/9 (~22.22%)
• Latino: 1/9 (~11.11%)

In real life, from what I can find, white people make up around 15% of the planetary population; Asians make up around 60%; black people make up around 16%; and Latinos and Hispanics make up around 8.28% of the population.

So, yes, even in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, white people are disproportionately over-represented and all other racial groups are disproportionately under-represented. This is a problem. I really love SNW, but this reflects ingrained institutional racist biases present both within American and Anglosphere cultures and within the North American entertainment industry.

 

[UssGlenn]

I do not agree with including Jenna, Kyle, Sam, Jim, Pelia, or T'Pring. None of these roles are part of the principal cast.

The principal cast's racial breakdown is:

• White: 5/9 (~55.56%)
• Asian: 1/9 (~11.11%)
• Black: 2/9 (~22.22%)
• Latino: 1/9 (~11.11%)

In real life, from what I can find, white people make up around 15% of the planetary population; Asians make up around 60%; black people make up around 16%; and Latinos and Hispanics make up around 8.28% of the population.

So, yes, even in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, white people are disproportionately over-represented and all other racial groups are disproportionately under-represented. This is a problem. I really love SNW, but this reflects ingrained institutional racist biases present both within American and Anglosphere cultures and within the North American entertainment industry.

Still think its pointless to expect anything but a reflection of the acting pool.

Also your gobal percentage breakdown isn't right because Hispanic is an ethnicity and thus are included in the other groups (mostly white and indigenous American, and some black). Also I assume you include subcontinental Indians with Asians, and I really think they are distinct enough to count separately.

 

[CorporalClegg]

So, yes, even in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, white people are disproportionately over-represented and all other racial groups are disproportionately under-represented. This is a problem. I really love SNW, but this reflects ingrained institutional racist biases present both within American and Anglosphere cultures and within the North American entertainment industry.

Yup.

 

[Sci]

Still think its pointless to expect anything but a reflection of the acting pool.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of actors from enough communities to give broadly proportional representation.

Also your gobal percentage breakdown isn't right because Hispanic is an ethnicity and thus are included in the other groups (mostly white and indigenous American, and some black). Also I assume you include subcontinental Indians with Asians, and I really think they are distinct enough to count separately.

I mean, if you really want me to find the sources I can go through the googling again, but the point of that was that the racial groups represented in SNW are disproportionate. Unless you're trying to claim that 55% of the world is white and only 11% Asian or Latino/Hispanic, I don't really see the point.

 

[fireproof78]

I say broaden the pool. More the merrier, as it were.

 

[UssGlenn]

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of actors from enough communities to give broadly proportional representation.

Found the Ontario ACTRA 2019 census, here's what SNW casting has to work with:

Arab 1%
Black 9%
Caucasian (White) 69%
Chinese 4%
Filipino 1%
Japanese 1%
Korean 1%
Latin American 3%
South Asian 3%
Southeast Asian 1%
West Asian 1%
Other 1%
Don’t know/no response 2%
Western European 1%
Jewish 1%
West Indian/Caribbean 1%
Mixed Race 1%

So thats 12% asian actors

Unless you're trying to claim that 55% of the world is white and only 11% Asian or Latino/Hispanic, I

The Hispanic classification thing is a pet peeve of mine, but mostly just pointing out that I think most people picture China through the Philippines when hearing 60% asian when almost half those people are from India.

 

[Sci]

Found the Ontario ACTRA 2019 census, here's what SNW casting has to work with:

Thing is, they're not restricted to Ontario ACTRA. Mount, Peck, Gooding, Navia, Romijn, and Olusanmokun are American; Olusanmokun is Nigerian-American; Bush is Australian, and Chong is British. Most of the cast is not Ontario-based; their acting pool is wider than Ontario ACTRA.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Found the Ontario ACTRA 2019 census, here's what SNW casting has to work with:

Arab 1%
Black 9%
Caucasian (White) 69%
Chinese 4%
Filipino 1%
Japanese 1%
Korean 1%
Latin American 3%
South Asian 3%
Southeast Asian 1%
West Asian 1%
Other 1%
Don’t know/no response 2%
Western European 1%
Jewish 1%
West Indian/Caribbean 1%
Mixed Race 1%

So thats 12% asian actors



The Hispanic classification thing is a pet peeve of mine, but mostly just pointing out that I think most people picture China through the Philippines when hearing 60% asian when almost half those people are from India.

I think you're unintentionally making Sci's argument for him.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They seem to go Canadian for a lot of guest-stars and supporting roles.

 

[UssGlenn]

Thing is, they're not restricted to Ontario ACTRA. Mount, Peck, Gooding, Navia, Romijn, and Olusanmokun are American; Olusanmokun is Nigerian-American; Bush is Australian, and Chong is British. Most of the cast is not Ontario-based; their acting pool is wider than Ontario ACTRA.

The main cast gets paid enough to move, recurring and day players would be local. Case in point, Rong Fu, who plays Mitchell, lives in Toronto.