Jem'Hadar POW's?

[t_smitts]

Just rewatched the episode "One Little Ship" and at the end the surviving Jem'Hadar are said to be transferred to a POW camp. Does this seem like something you could pull off with the JH? In "The Abandoned", it was pretty clear they would have to kill the young JH in order to keep him there. Wouldn't they commit suicide to prevent capture, like the Vorta are supposed to?

And what about the white? Is the Federation able to replicate that? If not, what do you do about that?

 

[Kor]

If not, then they all suffer and die.

I vaguely remember some throwaway reference to another Ketracel white source in "Nemesis." But I'm not about to watch that travesty again to find out.

Kor

 

[Timo]

None mentioned there, though. It's in ST:Insurrection where the Son'a baddies are credited with producing Ketracel White. This establishes them both as really really bad baddies, and as technologically advanced players whom the UFP has to approach with groveling humility for the secret of bottling the waters of the fountain of youth.

For all we know, the Son'a originated in the Gamma Quadrant before fleeing to the Ba'ku planet and then further seceding to found their compact little Alpha empire. They might have gotten the recipe straight from the Dominion, then, having been Dominion minions originally. OTOH, they could have deciphered the mystery of Ketracel White simply because they were so smart.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

None mentioned there, though. It's in ST:Insurrection where the Son'a baddies are credited with producing Ketracel White.

Oops, that's what I was thinking of.

Kor

 

[DarKush]

I had never considered the OP's idea before. It is a good question. I was thinking the Jem'Hadar just fought to the death. I wonder if maybe they would commit mass suicide instead of being taken prisoner?

 

[Timo]

At least they'd be likely to commit suicide after being taken prisoner.

Which prompts the question of why the UFP would have POW camps in the first place. Do they take many Cardassian prisoners at that stage of the war? Or do they run generic camps that get activated whenever there's a war on (even though their other enemies, such as Klingons, also have their ideas about what to do in captivity)?

Or is a "Federation POW camp" a camp where Starfleet dumps its Federation prisoners, and the Jem'Hadar will be sent there to make life more enjoyable for the poor G.I. Joes and Janes who do time for punching a superior officer?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It seems obvious that the Dominion does not value the lives of individual Jem'Hadar, so I'm wondering why they should ever be held as POW's.

Sure, there were Federation POW's being held by the Dominion, but if the Dominion doesn't care about the lives of their soldiers, what could possibly be offered in exchange?

 

[Timo]

Why would the UFP worry about exchange? It wages war with stun guns - it has to deal with POWs for the basic logistical reason of keeping them from becoming an enemy asset again.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Terok Nor]

It seems obvious that the Dominion does not value the lives of individual Jem'Hadar, so I'm wondering why they should ever be held as POW's.

Sure, there were Federation POW's being held by the Dominion, but if the Dominion doesn't care about the lives of their soldiers, what could possibly be offered in exchange?

Vorta prisoners? Quark was allowed to trade a Vorta prisoner in exchange for Moogie with Captain Sisko's approval.

I can't imagine there were a lot of Jem'Hadar POWs. It just doesn't make sense with what we've seen from them.

 

[T'Girl]

Sure, there were Federation POW's being held by the Dominion, but if the Dominion doesn't care about the lives of their soldiers, what could possibly be offered in exchange?

The whole idea behind taking POW's is that once a soldier becomes a non-combatant you stop trying to kill them, so you take them prisoner to prevent them from simply returning to their "side", getting a new weapon and becoming a combatant again.

You warehouse them until the war is over, then you either let them go home, or if they commited offenses outside of war you treat them as criminals.

+

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, obviously they can't just let the Jem'Hadar go, because they would immediately start killing anyone they met.

The only way out of this I can see, is that the Founder leader's order to surrender would - or at least should - be obeyed without question by any surviving Jem'Hadar. So if there are any of them still held as POW's after the war is over, they should theoretically NOT keep killing people, because that wouldn't be the will of the Founders.

 

[T'Girl]

Well, obviously they can't just let the Jem'Hadar go, because they would immediately start killing anyone they met.

Releasing them only after they were back in the Gamma Quad probably would be a good idea.

+

 

[bbjeg]

I assume that they would put a captured Jem Hadar in suspension or in heavy sedation until the end of the war. IIRC, I think Sisko suggested it to a Jem Hadar when they crashed that bug ship on that planet.

 

[Hippocrates Noah]

The Federation wouldn't necessarily have to replicate White, they could just collect it off of dead Jem'Hadar or take a case left by a dead Vorta. I don't recall them ever collected it in an episode, besides the guy in AR-558 who collected them for his necklace, but I bet they had some even if only to study it.

I'm guessing it's not impossible for a Jem'Hadar to be captured. As we saw in episodes like Hippocratic Oath and To The Death the Jem'Hadar don't always do as they're told. They're not all as obedient as the majority, sometimes they're outright rebellious. It should also be noted that in One Little Ship those were new Jem'Hadar bred in the Alpha Quadrant who were supposed to be different from the Gammas in various ways, though that was pretty much dropped after that episode. Those Jem'Hadar were a little more free-thinking and less rigid than the Gamma member of their team, but ultimately more gullible.

 

[Wingsley]

Taking a Jem'Hadar as a prisoner is about as sensible as taking the crew of a Borg ship as prisoners. Neither is known for surrendering in combat.

 

[Timo]

The Federation wouldn't necessarily have to replicate White, they could just collect it off of dead Jem'Hadar or take a case left by a dead Vorta.

It would be interesting to learn some hard facts about the consumption rate of the stuff. In "Rocks and Shoals", one vial suffices for the supposed standard two-roles-plus-eight-extras complement of Jem'Hadar for about one day (but leaves them unable to shroud or maintain firing discipline, and is declared unusual/insufficient by one of their number in any case). That vial is handed over two days after the crash; we lack knowledge on whether more vials were handed over during those two days, though, and how long it was since the last dose before the crash. We also fail to get an indication of how many vials are normally handed over for ten troops. The field pack of the Vorta Keevan doesn't look as if it could hold more than a dozen vials, but there might be more stuff inside that gets inserted into the vials at the last minute.

In "The Abandoned", Bashir never gets the specs on correct dosage. His estimates range from a week to a year for a dispenser featuring ten vials but again possibly more stuff inside. On top of the uncertainty, the Jem'Hadar there is an adolescent, with requirements possibly differing from those of adults.

In "Hippocratic Oath", Goran'Agar originally crashed with a three-day dose which he spread out for eight days and then expected to die. It would seem natural and consistent to assume he had but one vial with him, but was it full? We see him hand over full vials, and he then reveals there's only five days of supply remaining. Was it those vials, or is there a further set? If he himself could survive for eight days on a three-day dose, then he probably wouldn't worry Bashir with shortage issues if he did have a further full set of vials for his men. OTOH, he speaks of a 27-day supply which in reality is a 5-day one - that's an odd ratio if one vial lasts for five days!

Taking a Jem'Hadar as a prisoner is about as sensible as taking the crew of a Borg ship as prisoners. Neither is known for surrendering in combat.

But once taken prisoner, surrendering is no longer an issue. And the heroes were able to wean one Borg of the Collective in "I, Borg", with mere captivity. Certainly the captivity alone did not fatally threaten the Drone.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marie1]

I was wondering if they'd hold them in stasis. Otherwise, perhaps if they captured Dominion ships that had stores of White they could provide it to Jem'Hadar troops.
I'm not sure most Jem'Hadar would necessarily kill themselves if they felt they could still fight or be of use to the Founders in the future. As they are so confident in the Founders will win, I'd imagine they'd hold off suicide so they can rejoin the fight or manage to overcome their guards and escape. I wonder if they'd be able to locate other Jem'hadar who aren't addicted to the White...