Unicron said:
3D Master said:
That's crap. A good commander relies on his executives for advice - WHEN HE NEEDS IT. When he doesn't need it, he gives a command and it is to be followed, plain and simple. And it's not unfamiliar to him - it's Starfleet vessel, the crew is to follow his commands. And I'm the one who would be scared to hell to follow any captain who has no own judgment, he is not worth following.
Yeah, and any experienced commander may find himself needing advice frequently. That's why the executives are there, because individual experience is not enough.
In Jellico's case, it was.
And Jellico did not command a Galaxy class starship, which means the Enterprise was not as familiar to him. It's kind of like giving the captain of a destroyer temporary command of a battleship or carrier, and watching that captain pretend he can run the ship exactly the same way.
Wrong. The only difference between Jellico's old ship and the Enterprise, is that the latter is bigger. It's NOTHING like a battleship and a carrier. They're both battle shps.
For what it's worth, I do agree with some of Jellico's decisions. I think he was probably right to a degree when Riker argued with him about rescuing Picard, because the treaty Riker mentions only applies to POWs. If Jellico agreed, he'd be tacitly admitting that the Feds are now at war.
He was right all the time.
No, he was making an excuse because Jellico has the need to control his crew. It's how he deals with his personal doubts as a commander. He also was unwilling on a personal level to believe that the Cardassians cared about the peace too, and I think that influenced his judgment.
MOTHER OF GOD!
The Cardassians were thought to have developed or were developing a biogenic weapon. They hid a fleet ready to invade the Federation in a nebula. They lured the captain of the Federation flagship into a trap. And in a earlier episode the Federation already found out that the Cardassians were gearing up for war; and Jellico will have had briefings on this. HE WAS RIGHT!
Jellico does not need to control his crew, and didn't need to. They were under his control/command by the sheer virtue of him BEING THE CAPTAIN OF THE ENTERPRISE! Whatever he did with Cardassians, also has no impact on the crew.
Finally, we've seen Picard himself state that no matter how many doubts and insecurities he has, to the crew he must look like he's absolutely certain. So, according to you, Picard must be just as bad a captain and just as big a jerk as Jellico!
Sjeez.
And he was right - and anyone who had an inkling of what they were doing, would be expecting the exact same thing. It was all but a suicide mission.
He should still hope for the best, even when victory is unlikely. As it stands, his attitude was "Picard, you're screwed. Therefore, the ship is mine and anyone who disagrees (Riker) can fuck off." Frankly, as a captain who had to turn over command the way Picard did for mission purposes, I'd be a little concerned if my replacement told me he wouldn't care if I didn't make it.
HE DID HOPE FOR THE BEST!! And he NEVER said anything about hoping Picard didn't return. If he wanted Picard to fail so badly, he would never have helped Picard out with that probe - something Necheyeva never bothered to do herself.
Also he NEVER wanted anyone to fuck off. He needed everyone to follow his orders, because in order to lead that ship properly, he couldn't do things half-way, he need to be the captain of that ship, period.
And he's right - he has experience with Cardassians, he understands how they think - and he does what needs to be done to get the mission you say he doesn't care about to the best possible conclusion.
He understands how
some Cardassians think. They do not all think alike, but Jellico assumes they do because they're an old enemy. If the guy had been in command at the end of "The Defector" he probably would have fought Tomalak to "protect" the honor of the Federation, rather than letting the stalemate keep the peace.
:role eyes: Sorry, but let's see: Cardassians build up to war in an earlier episode, and now are building a biogenic weapon. Wow! What a shocker! The Cardassians might not be fully upfront. And Jellico's negotiations were all to make a truly lasting peace, and not some quick stop gap the Cardassians would only use to build up further.
He was right, plain and simple. And this has nothing to do with the Romulans or how they are.
Human adversaries of our culture - not Cardassian ones with a totally alien culture and genetically ingrained reactions.
The principles remain the same. Pissing off the other guy just because you
personally don't trust him (which is what Jellico did) is bad.
BULLSHIT! He didn't piss the Cardassians off because he didn't trust them. The same way saying sorry to that one Federation species would get you into a fight, and essentially telling him to go fuck off, would have earned you his respect - different cultures and species react different to the way you do things. You want to get something out of a Klingon, you aren't nice, you yell in his face. Treating the Cardassians the way Jellico treated them, is the same way.
Yeah, he only increased the shifts in all departments, while reassigning a third of the engineering staff to security over Geordi's objections. Both he and Riker agreed that Jellico was unwilling to listen to them or any of the department heads.
He doesn't need to listen them, they are to follow orders.
