Jayru (JSnaith's) 3D Trek

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by JSnaith, May 28, 2022.

  1. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Can this ship’s saucer routinely detach and operate independently? Or is it an emergency feature?

    If it can operate separately, then the stardrive section needs to operate separately. And even if it is an “emergency only” feature, wouldn’t it make some sense that if the saucer can speed away in one direction, you might want to send the stardrive section in the other direction?

    I’m just saying… it might be true this ship comes before the D, but that hardly means there could not be “proto” versions of some of the D’s details on her. They just might serve a slightly different purpose.

    I’d at least try shrinking that drive by 20% then splitting it in half and spreading the two engines apart a little. Then put your original engine back on the neck.
     
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  2. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    I can play around with it - it is chamfered, so it is "rounded" and it does taper. Maybe not the best of angles to see all that.

    That was part of the plan :techman: It needs to fit with the ship.

    So basically John Eaves it? Sorry that was a bit contrite. If you look at the Galaxy Class and where her shuttle bays are compared to where the main impulse drive is, then you have the same issue. This is also why I am beginning to favour the original as seen on the studio model idea, it's out of the way.

    Saucer sep on the Ambassador is an emergency one off feature only. All of the ideas for impulse engines have put them above the separation line on the neck. I would have to create a new third impulse engine to sit below the separation line. Hummm. Are we talking about having three impulse engines in constant operation on this ship? I have issues with that, because it seems overkill to me.

    Technology moves forward, and even taking that basic idea into consideration when you look at the size of impulse engines ratio to the rest of a ship, like nacelles they get smaller over time. (Until John Eaves came to be lead designer and then things get massive again). Having an impulse engine on the neck is not a bad thing for the Ambassador Class, it's a massive ship that needs to move, having the drive on the neck puts it more on the ships centre line and works for moving the ship well. Ratio wise, it is consistent with other Fed ships. I did build some rather large thrusters into the eng-hull, so it's not stuck if the impulse engines are offline, or if the saucer is gone. The secondary hull will still be able to move.

    So that brings me to the question of what to do.

    I do not want to rebuild large areas of the saucer to put a Galaxy style impulse system on the hull. Sorry my friends but that would be too much of a ball-ache to take the saucer back to an older state in order to do that. I'll play around with this some more.

    Thank you all... More later.
     
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  3. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    Just to answer a quick question, where is the separation line is and how the impulse engines work with it -

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The separation line is as designed on the studio model.

    More later.
     
  4. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    Variations -

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Comments and thoughts welcome, more later
     
  5. TOMFAN

    TOMFAN Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The middle version gets my vote!
     
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  6. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Middle version for me as well!.
     
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  7. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    The same
     
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  8. ashleytinger

    ashleytinger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like the top.
     
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  9. Bernard Guignard

    Bernard Guignard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I prefer the top one only because the impulse look like that they can better handle a ship of that mass. That said they are all nice and this is your design and I enjoy anything that you show us.
    Thank you for creating these :techman::techman::techman::techman::techman::biggrin:
     
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  10. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually I don't get the reference. But I do think you misunderstood the suggestion.

    If you look at the Galaxy class you'll notice that there is a good spacing of the impulse exhausts to the the shuttle bays.
    [​IMG]
    On your version where you have the centerline impulse exhausts on the saucer rim you do not have vertical spacing.

    My suggestion was to split the impulse and not put it on the centerline. You don't even need to cut into the saucer to imitate the Galaxy.

    (Pardon my crude scribble)
    [​IMG]

    However, she's your ship. Looking forward to seeing whatever direction you decide. :)
     
  11. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    Thank you all.

    I am not sure what the best direction is going forward. I don't agree that the ship needs three impulse engines, it's a redundancy that... It just doesn't need. Saucer Separation on this class of ship would be a one time thing - no going back and reattaching without a ship yard. I realise that Probert's excellent original design allows that version of the ship to separate and come back together, and has two different impulse drives for that situation. But this is not that ship.

    Going forward I am beginning to see the wisdom of what is on the studio model - it's out of the way (so wont cook the shuttles), on the vessel centre line, and importantly above the separation line. I'm not happy that idea is the only answer and I am going to take some time out to think about it. Tomorrow, Tuesday and maybe Wednesday are busy days for me - work being done on the house and medical stuff. So I wouldn't be able to work on her - BUT, I can task my mind with looking at different ideas.

    More soon folks!
     
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  12. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with blssdwlf’s suggestion with one caveat. If you do what he says, the thrust from those engines is now closer to the line of the nacelles. That’s why I suggested a third engine on the neck like your original design. That single neck impulse engine would be for the ship when operating saucer and stardrive joined. And for getting the stardrive section away from the saucer in an emergency. The twin, separated impulse engines on the saucer would be to get the saucer away from the stardrive section in an emergency, when them interfering with the nacelles wouldn’t matter. The single engine on the neck would be placed below the separation line. The other two would go roughly where blasdwlf has put them.

    It’s not a theee engine arrangement like the Galaxy-class. And it isn’t a two engine arrangement like ships before this one. It’s an in-between design that addresses a single problem - survival of that saucer.

    You can then imagine a captain of one of these ships pushing its limits and trying to get that saucer and stardrive section to function as two, separate vessels, and that leading to the Galaxy design.
     
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  13. Starscape

    Starscape Commodore Commodore

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    This is how I integrated the impulse engines on an (unfinished) Ambassador CG-bash, based on U.S.S. Pegasus concept art:
    https://i.imgur.com/ZdEkniy.jpg

    Not sure if it would fit an Ambassador but it's different to the approaches tried so far, so it might help generate other ideas. :)
     
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  14. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    Aft torpedoes might look nice under an impulse deck..easier to fill…maybe probe launchers
     
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  15. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    I still think that's a redundancy the ship doesn't need. If you have a dedicated impulse drive for the Eng-Hull questions are going to be raised as to why it's never used. Let's remember it would be a use once device, when Starfleet has been happy to use big ass thrusters in the past to achieve the same thing. (And yes, I did build those in!).

    I understand your point about the saucer. It will always have the Impulse Engines to get it away from the Secondary Hull - every concept I have done has place the impulse drives above the sep-line. Every. Single. One. I did think about this, lol.

    Actually that would be line up with "idea B" - which is the one I favour.

    Aft torpedoes? Already on the ship in the undercut of the secondary hull. I don't want to over embellish the back of the neck. It would look weird next to the secondary hull and break up the lines I built in.

    More later this week.
     
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  16. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    “I still think that's a redundancy the ship doesn't need. If you have a dedicated impulse drive for the Eng-Hull questions are going to be raised as to why it's never used. Let's remember it would be a use once device, when Starfleet has been happy to use big ass thrusters in the past to achieve the same thing. (And yes, I did build those in!).”

    I think you misunderstand me. The impulse drive on the neck, on the secondary hull, would be the main impulse drive. The impulse drives on the saucer would be the emergency drives for getting away.

    And if the stardrive is gonna blow up, you’d want it to be flying away from the saucer while the saucer flies away from it. That gets them twice as far apart, reducing the likelihood the saucer gets caught up in the stardrive explosion.

    In the end it is certainly up to you. I’m just saying three drives, allocated to one main and two emergency, makes evolutionary sense. The main drive gets moved to where it is on the Galaxy-class, but the saucer drives are not for regular use.
     
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  17. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    Ok, I do understand what you are saying - I'm not just being stubborn, I'm... Making a case, lol.

    I did play with this first thing this morning, moving the impulse drive on the neck so it's below the separation line. Reference images to the separation line can be found here -

    I did add a sort of impulse drive to the saucer, but it looks... too busy. To be frank, it will not sit visually well with anyone. But I'm going to do it to prove that point. I think - visually - the only way to make it work is do to something akin to what the Galaxy Class has. So I will be cutting the saucer, rather than bolting on new drives - which I think (again) we can all agree doesn't work.

    No, I am not going to rebuild the neck and the saucer to move the separation line. Aside from issue of "where the impulse drive/s go" this mesh is actually finished.

    I think if I had looked at this earlier during the build I could have come up with a solution that doesn't have me pulling my hair out in frustration. Leave it with me, I will get cracking on this today and see what happens.

    Yes, ultimately I have to be the one who is happy with it, I'm building it after all. All I can say is, that this again is probably not a well designed ship - but then we know the studio model was a rush job.

    Comments welcome, more soon
     
  18. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    [​IMG]

    Not right, so I will cut in a place for discrete emergency impulse drives.
     
  19. JSnaith

    JSnaith Captain Captain

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    [​IMG]

    Yes, I can see the errors on the saucer. Will sort them out *sigh*
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
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  20. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like them both, and think the top one might even work if you make the saucer drives smaller.
     
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