Jaylah and Krall Prime Universe

[Nyotarules]

Or the stress of the incident meant the birth was premature and had it not happened he would have been born in Iowa?

That's possible although the Nero butterfly effect influenced the birthdates of Chekov and Uhura by years which means they are not the same Chekov and Uhura as the Prime version. Probably explains why nuChekov was a genius, Prime Chekov was not. Nu Uhura is a talented linguist and Prime Uhura was not known for her language skills.

 

[Timo]

As regards Uhura, she's not necessarily a different person biologically - just a person who lived a different life and learned a different profession. Her age doesn't pop up in dialogue, and her looks tell us nothing because the looks of supposedly "unchanged" people older than Kirk have changed anyway (and sometimes, elsewhere in the franchise, change even in situations not involving split timelines, always without comment).

With Chekov, that's not a possibility, as his age differs from the Prime one. But Prime Pavel claimed he had a brother named Pyotr in "Day of the Dove". Since our heroes are notoriously unaware of the siblings of each other, that may well have been true, and the parents in the Kelvin timeline just swapped the names of their two kids. This would be the minimum-fuss solution that would fit Star Trek's notorious lack of butterfly effect.

(So, does the Narada look like a regular mining rig? It sure fits my idea of a machine intended to hug and digest asteroids...)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

That's possible although the Nero butterfly effect influenced the birthdates of Chekov and Uhura by years which means they are not the same Chekov and Uhura as the Prime version. Probably explains why nuChekov was a genius, Prime Chekov was not. Nu Uhura is a talented linguist and Prime Uhura was not known for her language skills.

TOS Chekov often filled in for Spock at the science station-not a genius per se, but not an idiot either. Prime Uhura had her memory wiped by Nomad, so mitigating circumstances.

 

[Nyotarules]

Wikipedia

As regards Uhura, she's not necessarily a different person biologically - just a person who lived a different life and learned a different profession. Her age doesn't pop up in dialogue, and her looks tell us nothing because the looks of supposedly "unchanged" people older than Kirk have changed anyway (and sometimes, elsewhere in the franchise, change even in situations not involving split timelines, always without comment).

With Chekov, that's not a possibility, as his age differs from the Prime one. But Prime Pavel claimed he had a brother named Pyotr in "Day of the Dove". Since our heroes are notoriously unaware of the siblings of each other, that may well have been true, and the parents in the Kelvin timeline just swapped the names of their two kids. This would be the minimum-fuss solution that would fit Star Trek's notorious lack of butterfly effect.

(So, does the Narada look like a regular mining rig? It sure fits my idea of a machine intended to hug and digest asteroids...)

Timo Saloniemi

Wiki before ST09 had Uhura's birthdate as 2239, as for 'Day of the dove' episode it was later confirmed Chekov did not have a brother.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

So they retcon his birthplace to fit the Kelvinverse

Except Kirk's birthplace was never established before Star Trek (2009).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ In ST IV, Kirk said he was from Iowa.

 

[stardream]

^ In ST IV, Kirk said he was from Iowa.

I was born in NC. I moved to my present location when I was two years old. I don't tell people I'm 'from' North Carolina. I'm from here.

 

[Timo]

Wiki before ST09 had Uhura's birthdate as 2239

Which is fine and well; it's not confirmed or contradicted on screen for either of the Uhuras, and does not create a difference between the two versions. All we know is that it could have been affected by Nero fluttering by, but it need not have been affected.

as for 'Day of the dove' episode it was later confirmed Chekov did not have a brother.

By Sulu, whose word we should take over Chekov's own for what reason? Everybody aboard was being made crazy and stupid by the alien entity; Sulu's word is no better than Chekov's, and serves to create conflict and discord just as nicely as Chekov's version.

Not that much would hinge on this. But choosing to think that Pyotr did not exist just because of Sulu's say-so is not necessarily better than choosing to think that McCoy, another seemingly stable and non-raving individual in the same adventure at the same stage, was speaking his natural mind when saying "What proof do we need? We know what a Klingon is!"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Greg Cox]

I was born in NC. I moved to my present location when I was two years old. I don't tell people I'm 'from' North Carolina. I'm from here.

Good point. And if Kirk Prime was a military brat, with parents in Starfleet, he probably grew up all over the place. Heck, we know he ended up on Tarsus IV at some point in his youth, just in time to narrowly avoid being executed by Kodos . .. .

 

[Nerys Myk]

By Sulu, whose word we should take over Chekov's own for what reason? Everybody aboard was being made crazy and stupid by the alien entity; Sulu's word is no better than Chekov's, and serves to create conflict and discord just as nicely as Chekov's version.

It's a key point in establishing the alien entity was screwing with their emotions to create the discord you mentioned. So writer's intent wins out over fan supposition.

 

[Timo]

...Until it becomes dramatically satisfactory to assume the opposite. After all, that would just improve the effect - not only are the heroes getting the once-over, but the audience is being mindfucked there, too.

The interesting thing about parallel universes and time meddling is the lack of chaotic effects, or the presence of "attractors" such as the same people being born in every reality. There really is a bit of a demand for an explanation as to why Chekov was born so late in this particular universe. Of course, it could be something more interesting than "the brothers swapped names", but we're still waiting for such an alternative.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Some fun speculation. What do you all think happened to Jaylah, Krall, Manas and Kalara in the Prime Universe?

Didn't exist. In fact I'm pretty sure that nebula is a remnant from the Delphic Expanse and in turn is only there because of the Temporal Cold War, which doesn't seem to have really occurred in the Prime Universe. More likely, Balthasar Edison wound up getting stranded with Captain Bryce Schumar and Jaylah got lynched on her home planet for being white-with-black-stripes in a black-with-white-stripes neighborhood.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

A mighty fleet? Krall's swarm dissected a ship at least slightly based on Borg tech, and larger than the Enterprise-E, effortlessly.

Well the reboot Enterprise is NONE of those things, so I'm wondering what your point us.

What chance do you think the Prime TOS Starfleet would have?

Pretty good chance, considering it was Kirk and crew flying a vessel one tenth the size of the TOS Enterprise that actually turned the tide against the swarm. Nothing they tried that actually WORKED required them to have an immensely powerful ship or advanced technology. What they needed most was direct access to one of the swarm ships and a little time to analyze their cyberpathic network in order to come up with a countermeasure. The Prime Crew probably could have done the exact same thing; the only difference is it would be a two parter and there would have been a reset button involved (like going through a wormhole to rescue the ship before it was destroyed or some other nonsense).

Hell, what chance do you think the Borg would have??

They'd assimilate the entire swarm and thus become FUCKING TERRIFYING!!

^ In ST IV, Kirk said he was from Iowa.

He is from Iowa. He just wasn't BORN there.

My mother was born in Tennessee, but if you ask her where she's from she'll say "Chicago" every time.

 

[Timo]

Curiously, we never see Prime Kirk anywhere near Iowa. It would be nice to learn about the exact manner his life was wrapped around that location: after all, when he claimed he "was" from Iowa and "was working" in outer space, his bed and recliner in fact were in California...

Might be one or both of his parents still were living in Riverside. Might be they had lived there for a significant part of Jimmy's childhood. Might be Iowa is where Kirk went every weekend, despite spending his working nights in San Francisco. But we never saw the "settled down" part of his life, which is something of a loss.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Myk]

...Until it becomes dramatically satisfactory to assume the opposite. After all, that would just improve the effect - not only are the heroes getting the once-over, but the audience is being mindfucked there, too.

Yes relatives can appear ( and disappear) at the whim of the writers. In this case the writer's intent was pretty clear. Chekov has no brother.

Curiously, we never see Prime Kirk anywhere near Iowa. It would be nice to learn about the exact manner his life was wrapped around that location: after all, when he claimed he "was" from Iowa and "was working" in outer space, his bed and recliner in fact were in California...

I see no real reason we need to explore Kirk's life in Iowa. It was an off the cuff remark that worked in the context of movie. We don't need to see his prom date from High School, Bessie the family cow or his track and field trophies for the line to work.

 

[Timo]

Feel free not to be interested in that aspect of the story. TOS did its damnedest to avoid showing future Earth, for obvious reasons; later Trek incarnations, with bigger budgets and more means, might do well to show rather than tell about the great contrast between the heroic lives of our heroes in outer space and the origins from which they sprang.

The Kelvin Universe got off to a good start showing Riverside, Iowa at long last, at any rate. We got to see the actual choice Kirk made when leaving for space - both the A and B of it. It's nice to know that there are things to choose from. And that the choices would matter, predestination or no predestination.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

I enjoyed the STID version of London, nice to see St Paul's cathedral and The Gherkin survived WW3 and still part of the London landscape in the 23rd century.

 

[Timo]

This must have become a neighborhood of ill repute and little or no residence, though, for mere forty or so people to be killed in a blast that sends a series of fireballs Gherkin high!

When the Kelvin movies show Earth, they don't let many stops unpulled. Ginormous arcologies, cities that make the Mezieres-Christin nightmares look like jewels of urban planning, giant quarries, exotic vehicles... I just wonder how much more could even theoretically be done for the fourth movie in that series without alienating the audience.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

I thought the bomb was in the basement of the Kelvin building, maybe the building was so strong it could contain the blast. I have been in an area where a bomb went off in London, during the IRA era and this was in the 20th century, the bomb did not flatten the whole area but still murdered people. I recall the ground shaking, I thought it was the end of the world.

 

[Timo]

The explosions could probably have been shrapnel-free, but then how did the balls of fire and smoke get loose? OTOH, when Kirk views imagery of Ground Zero, we see level ground rather than a hole in the ground. Is that supposed to be the floor of the S31 cave, perhaps?

Showing Kirk's homeworld is one step. Showing the homeworld of an alien non-main character (say, somebody like Jaylah) just for the atmosphere would be another Trek first...

Timo Saloniemi