Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Thrawn]

^ Right. It's easy to imagine any of 4,000 possible scenarios that will someday result in Data or Janeway or anyone else coming back from the dead; it's not happening in the foreseeable future, but that's only about a year and a half out at any given time.

But part of what makes the books interesting is that, since the series are over, the books have no foregone conclusions; we have no idea what will happen next. And that makes all of them immeasurably better, imo.

 

[Lynx]

If I go for eBooks, then I must buy a laptop since my favorite reading place and my stationary computer aren't located in the same room.

But it's good to know that the books are available in that way too. I really like those books and have re-read them a couple of times.

As for some of the things mentioned in this thread, like the SCE books, well I haven't totally closed the door to all Trek literature yet.

We'll see what will happen whenit comes to book series which are not affected by unwanted character deaths and character destruction. Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

 

[Thrawn]

Or you can buy something like a Kindle or Sony e-book reader, which are much cheaper than a laptop, and remarkably pleasant to use.

...oh, and so you're not actually adverse to characters dying if they aren't characters you happen to like a lot?

Because lemme tell ya, there isn't a single series of Treklit books that hasn't killed off at least one major character in that series (aside from the DS9-relaunch, to the best of my recollection, thus far). Nor was there a single Trek TV show that didn't kill off at least one major character in that series (if you include Kirk dying in Generations). Death has always been, and will always be, a part of the storytelling around here. And if you're just hoping that it doesn't happen to be characters you personally are attached to, then you're probably in the wrong place, because quite a few original characters I'd grown quite attached to have been offed over the years.

 

[Semah]

Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

That's just sad.

 

[Lynx]

Or you can buy something like a Kindle or Sony e-book reader, which are much cheaper than a laptop, and remarkably pleasant to use.

...oh, and so you're not actually adverse to characters dying if they aren't characters you happen to like a lot?

Because lemme tell ya, there isn't a single series of Treklit books that hasn't killed off at least one major character in that series (aside from the DS9-relaunch, to the best of my recollection, thus far). Nor was there a single Trek TV show that didn't kill off at least one major character in that series (if you include Kirk dying in Generations). Death has always been, and will always be, a part of the storytelling around here. And if you're just hoping that it doesn't happen to be characters you personally are attached to, then you're probably in the wrong place, because quite a few original characters I'd grown quite attached to have been offed over the years.

Not really. It's just that it can be easier to live with such changes when it comes to TV series or books in which I have only a casual interest and only watch an episode (or read a book) occasionally. That doesn't mean that I have to like those changes and there have been a few times when I've abandoned such series when there have been changes I didn't like.

On the other hand, I try to avoid getting any favorites now. I've learned my lesson from Voyager. The NCIS crew will probably be my last real favorites when it comes to characters.

As for Trek deaths in TV series, most of them have been casued by the fact that the actor wanted to leave. The exceptions are Kes (who wasn't killed off but dumped when they brought in Seven and later brought back, only to be ruined and destroyed, and yes that p***ed me off), Kirk (totally unnecessary) and Data (also totally unecessary).

 

[Lynx]

Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

That's just sad.

Why?

Just curious.

 

[Semah]

Since I don't have the same affection for the characters in those books as I have for the VOY, TNG and DS9 characters, it might be easier to accept possible "changes" in those books, if such changes occur.

That's just sad.

Why?

Just curious.

Liking a fictional character to the extent that you believe that the character should never die is naive. A wee bit.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

That's just sad.

Why?

Just curious.

Liking a fictional character to the extent that you believe that the character should never die is naive. A wee bit.

That and caring about a fictional characters death based on whether you liked them or not.

 

[Semah]

Why?

Just curious.

Liking a fictional character to the extent that you believe that the character should never die is naive. A wee bit.

That and caring about a fictional characters death based on whether you liked them or not.

I was gonna mention that too, but Thrawn put it better than I could have.

 

[Lynx]

Why?

Just curious.

Liking a fictional character to the extent that you believe that the character should never die is naive. A wee bit.

That and caring about a fictional characters death based on whether you liked them or not.

So what?

Why did I start to read Star Trek books in the first place? Because I liked the characters I saw on the screen and wanted to read about them as well. What's the point of buying those books and reading them if those favorite characters are killed off in them?

And I do think that everyone here cares more for the Star Trek characters than for, let's say Mr. Smith in some not so known drama series. Of course the killing off of Janeway and Data or the destruction of Kes will affect viewers and readers among the Trek fans more than Mr. Smith's death in a TV series which you only watch occasionally or a book series in which you may only read one or two books.

 

[kimc]

Janeway is dead? Another reason why I avoid Star Trek and Star Wars novels. This is the worst news since a planet fell on Chewbacca. Oh well, fortunately as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't on the stage it aint on the page.

Thank you for sharing your deep, thoughtful, and unprecedented insight with us. The fans of treklit thank you profoundly for informing us that what we enjoy doesn't matter.

Kudos, sir.

Wow, what an open-minded and tolerant group this is.

I guess I can see why you guys believe Janeway fans are in the minority - you do a pretty good job of chasing them off.

 

[Thrawn]

Janeway is dead? Another reason why I avoid Star Trek and Star Wars novels. This is the worst news since a planet fell on Chewbacca. Oh well, fortunately as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't on the stage it aint on the page.

Thank you for sharing your deep, thoughtful, and unprecedented insight with us. The fans of treklit thank you profoundly for informing us that what we enjoy doesn't matter.

Kudos, sir.

Wow, what an open-minded and tolerant group this is.

I guess I can see why you guys believe Janeway fans are in the minority - you do a pretty good job of chasing them off.

Ok, whatever.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Janeway is dead? Another reason why I avoid Star Trek and Star Wars novels. This is the worst news since a planet fell on Chewbacca. Oh well, fortunately as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't on the stage it aint on the page.

Thank you for sharing your deep, thoughtful, and unprecedented insight with us. The fans of treklit thank you profoundly for informing us that what we enjoy doesn't matter.

Kudos, sir.

Wow, what an open-minded and tolerant group this is.

I guess I can see why you guys believe Janeway fans are in the minority - you do a pretty good job of chasing them off.

Well he did just say the books don't really matter because they're not on TV and are implying that we should only care about whats on the show version.

 

[kimc]

Well you did just say the books don't really matter because they're not on TV and are implying that we should only care about whats on the show version.

Actually that was EnsignRicky.

 

[Thrawn]

Well you did just say the books don't really matter because they're not on TV and are implying that we should only care about whats on the show version.

Actually that was EnsignRicky.

And how should we have responded to someone coming in and, without doing any further research or reading, saying "yep, that's dumb, but it's ok, because none of it matters"?

I don't routinely make a habit of showing up on CSI boards (a show I don't watch) and complaining about cast changes. But if I did, how would you expect them to respond?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well you did just say the books don't really matter because they're not on TV and are implying that we should only care about whats on the show version.

Actually that was EnsignRicky.

Oh sorry I went back and edited it.

 

[Christopher]

I guess I can see why you guys believe Janeway fans are in the minority - you do a pretty good job of chasing them off.

That's not true. I'm a Janeway fan myself. But there are a couple of people hereabouts who express their Janeway fandom in a way that's rather aggressive toward opposing viewpoints, who act as though they speak for some vast militant horde whose disapproval will bring ruin to the book line rather than just expressing their own individual opinions, and who cross the line from civil discussion to attacks on other posters, the writers, the editors, etc. Those are inappropriate regardless of the character or idea they're used in support of.

And nobody ever expressed the view that Janeway fans are in the minority -- merely that these two people who've said they'd boycott the books because of Janeway's death are wrong in assuming that the overwhelming majority of Trek book readers will follow suit.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As for some of the things mentioned in this thread, like the SCE books, well I haven't totally closed the door to all Trek literature yet.

We'll see what will happen whenit comes to book series which are not affected by unwanted character deaths and character destruction.

 

[aelius]

i don't care about Janeway dying particularly, but I have to admit the attitude of 'we don't know what to do with her, let's kill her!' seems a bit strange.

Unless I'm missing something, nobody on the editorial side of things ever said any such thing. That's all speculation, seemingly coming from some of the more vocal opponents to the decision.

Here's what we've heard:

I spoke with PAD and Marco and Margaret at Shore Leave '08. According to Margaret it was Paramount that insisted on the extra bit with Janeway at the end. She wanted her to be unambiguously dead. Margaret felt that Janeway's story had been told and that her death would provide more story motivation for other characters than her continued presence as an admiral at Starfleet HQ. (...) Janeway's character had done everything that she was created to do. She had gotten her people home and settled her outstanding plot threads ( her fiance ) and been promoted to Admiral. Without some kind of contrived plotting she would not realistically be part of the common adventures of the starship Voyager. By killing her they could use that to create drama with the remaining characters and explore their reactions.

And I'm fairly certain we'd heard something to that effect before, because I remember challenging the idea that there was nothing interesting to do with an Admiral Janeway some months back. My policy is: combat ignorance with knowledge. If aelius inadvertently misrepresented editoral's stance, let us know.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I never claimed she said they did not know what to do with her. She said that killing her would enable the generation of the type of stories that get told only rarely in Star Trek, i.e. the permanent death of a character. Yes, she also said her story had been told, and it had. Not that new stories could not be generated, just the existing story of Janeway was complete. If you want to use a character to tell the stories of loss, you might as well use one that has accomplished their big goal. Unless the fact that they did not get to finish is the story you want to tell.
As can be seen, the story could have gone many ways. I try not to impute motives to people. No one knows what is going on in someones head, so I try to accept their statements at face value unless I have evidence to the contrary. Ms Clark did not claim that killing Janeway was the only solution, just one that would generate compelling plotlines.
I hope that makes clear what I was trying to say.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I guess I can see why you guys believe Janeway fans are in the minority - you do a pretty good job of chasing them off.

That's not true. I'm a Janeway fan myself. But there are a couple of people hereabouts who express their Janeway fandom in a way that's rather aggressive toward opposing viewpoints, who act as though they speak for some vast militant horde whose disapproval will bring ruin to the book line rather than just expressing their own individual opinions, and who cross the line from civil discussion to attacks on other posters, the writers, the editors, etc. Those are inappropriate regardless of the character or idea they're used in support of.

And nobody ever expressed the view that Janeway fans are in the minority -- merely that these two people who've said they'd boycott the books because of Janeway's death are wrong in assuming that the overwhelming majority of Trek book readers will follow suit.

QFT.

Oh, and Christoper I'm starting to really wish you could pop over in the Trek XI forum just to act as the voice of reason over there because a lot of the posters fit your discription of the militant anti-Janeway death group except 10 times worse and are annoyed by things in the movie and not Janeways death in the books.

As for some of the things mentioned in this thread, like the SCE books, well I haven't totally closed the door to all Trek literature yet.

We'll see what will happen whenit comes to book series which are not affected by unwanted character deaths and character destruction.

oh yeah I forgot about that though Lynx pretty much addmited to not giving a crap about characters the only exist in novels and chacters that are extras on the shows which is pretty much what the cast of SCE though the ex-extras who are now main chacters get pretty good character development I don't think it will bother him/her that much.