Janeway Died? In Which Book?

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Again, those are all just opinions. You don't have to agree with them.

Accusing the writers and editors of malice and unprofessionalism is not just an opinion, it's a personal attack, and one that earns attacks back. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Huh!

Aren't you exaggerating now?

I have only expressed an opinion.

I think that killing off Janeway is wrong and the decision to do so was wrong. Am I not allowed to think that? As a fan of Janeway and the Voyager characters, I've also expressed my feelings in many posts in this thread, the reason why I react as I do when it comes to that subject.

What I can see, most of the debate here has been cordial, the insults I've seen so far has been aimed at me for having an "unhealthy obsession" or affection for the characters or ridiculing replies about "Janeway fans as a minority".

Jean-Luc Picard wrote:

I love Janeway, and she is one of my favourite characters from across the Trek universe. The manner in which she died was, in my opinion, pretty ridiculous and the entire situation seemed unnecessary. But it is fiction. And there are other characters that I enjoy and want to keep up with. Not to mention that the books since then have been fantastic - I understand being annoyed with Janeway's death, but at the same time, it seems a tad myopic to let the death of one character spoil a whole franchise.

I can see your point here. In fact, there are other characters that I enjoy too and would like to keep up with.

But to be honest, the Voyager crew has already been shattered to the winds. OK, Chakotay is on Voyager and Kim is there too. But Kes was ruined in the series and there seem to be no interest in bringing her back in a decent way without further character destruction, Neelix was dumped on an asteroid and no one wants to bring him back either, Tuvok has been transferred to Riker's ship (or was it Enterprise), Tom and B'Elanna are "married with children" (maybe they've changed their surnames to Bundy ) The Doctor and Seven are Barclay's laboratory pets. And if that wasn't enough, now Janeway is killed off. You can see why I think that "enough is enough".

I do find it hard to enjoy that scenario so forgive me if I rather re-read masterpieces like "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox or "Marooned" by Christie Golden.

When I first read "The Black Shore", I read it from the first page to the last without any break because it was so good and so incredible exciting. Those were the days!

I can definitely understand your viewpoint here, as I don't agree with some of the creative decisions have been made. However, I'd really recommend that you try to get into some of the more recent books; try to focus on the characters that are still around and developing well, and you'll really enjoy them.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

I am curious what “Full Circle” will be about but I would look forward to the book more if Janeway would still be alive, if she would actually be forced to face the consequences of her actions. Having her developed as an Admiral could have been groundbreaking. I very much doubt that this decision to kill her will provide that.

Not to be snippy, but posts like this have always annoyed me. How about... reading the book first, before you talk about all its missed opportunities? If nothing else, it has a full TWO YEARS OF TIME to develop Janeway as an admiral before she dies! Maybe what you want is IN the book. Or maybe the reactions to her death ARE more interesting than you expect.

I understand your hesitation, but judging the story before the story is written has always perplexed me.

No one disagrees that characters dying has a profound effect on other characters, and that one could tell stories with Janeway dead that one could never tell otherwise. This is a fact. The question is if those stories are worth the character's absence or not... and how can we possibly know that if we don't read the damn stories?!

What I am talking about are my personal feelings. I have mentioned before more than once that, of course, we have to wait and see. I just didn`t want to use this disclaimer every time in this thread or when this topic comes up.

Maybe I will be proven wrong. But at this moment in time I don`t think so.

 

[Thrawn]

I am curious what “Full Circle” will be about but I would look forward to the book more if Janeway would still be alive, if she would actually be forced to face the consequences of her actions. Having her developed as an Admiral could have been groundbreaking. I very much doubt that this decision to kill her will provide that.

Not to be snippy, but posts like this have always annoyed me. How about... reading the book first, before you talk about all its missed opportunities? If nothing else, it has a full TWO YEARS OF TIME to develop Janeway as an admiral before she dies! Maybe what you want is IN the book. Or maybe the reactions to her death ARE more interesting than you expect.

I understand your hesitation, but judging the story before the story is written has always perplexed me.

No one disagrees that characters dying has a profound effect on other characters, and that one could tell stories with Janeway dead that one could never tell otherwise. This is a fact. The question is if those stories are worth the character's absence or not... and how can we possibly know that if we don't read the damn stories?!

What I am talking about are my personal feelings. I have mentioned before more than once that, of course, we have to wait and see. I just didn`t want to use this disclaimer every time in this thread or when this topic comes up.

Maybe I will be proven wrong. But at this moment in time I don`t think so.

Jericho, short lived though it was, was one of my favorite TV shows ever. At the end of the first season, one of my very favorite characters was killed off, abruptly and to my mind pointlessly. The show was then canceled, but a fan campaign brought it back for seven more episodes. I didn't participate in that fan campaign; one of my favorite characters was gone, the vibe of the show had changed, and it was just enough to push me past the point where I would've wanted to put time and energy into bringing the show back. I'd happily watch it if it was renewed, but I knew that it Wouldn't Be The Same.

Second season, when it finally aired for the woefully short 7 episodes that it did, introduced a new character that filled something of the role that my favorite character had. And, quite honestly, every moment he was on screen was brilliant. Perfect actor, perfect character, stunningly well written; he is, despite his short 7-episode run, one of my very favorite characters in all of TV history. And his story wouldn't have been possible without the death of the character at the end of first season.

(I haven't named names, just in case someone else wants to watch this series and not have it all spoiled by me.)

I had no way of knowing or expecting that would occur, aside from trusting that the people that'd come up with so many good stories in first season would continue to do so. I didn't put very much faith in that trust, and was proven wrong, making almost a year of worrying and "I just don't see how it could be as good" seem pretty goddamn stupid.

Now, is this kind of thing always the case? Absolutely not. But if nothing else, it taught me not to judge ahead of time. And, for whatever reason, it seems to me like just about everything Marco Palmieri ever touched turned to gold - the ideas and the stories weren't his, and I don't want to take any credit away from the fantastic writers that put them on paper, but it seems like he had an amazing ability to turn raw ideas into surprisingly incredible stories. Earlier in this thread, I noted that only 4 books Marco ever edited in the Trek line were books I didn't like. I might hate Full Circle, but past evidence would seem to indicate I should at least give it the benefit of the doubt, no matter how worried I may be about the setup.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Kes was ruined in the series and there seem to be no interest in bringing her back in a decent way without further character destruction

The "String Theory" trilogy? Neelix channelling Kes in "Pathways"?

What I can see, most of the debate here has been cordial, the insults I've seen so far has been aimed at me

The discussion of your comments being interpreted as insulting goes back to here, among other places:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2504674&postcount=244

 

[Lynx]

Accusing the writers and editors of malice and unprofessionalism is not just an opinion, it's a personal attack, and one that earns attacks back. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Huh!

Aren't you exaggerating now?

I have only expressed an opinion.

I think that killing off Janeway is wrong and the decision to do so was wrong. Am I not allowed to think that? As a fan of Janeway and the Voyager characters, I've also expressed my feelings in many posts in this thread, the reason why I react as I do when it comes to that subject.

What I can see, most of the debate here has been cordial, the insults I've seen so far has been aimed at me for having an "unhealthy obsession" or affection for the characters or ridiculing replies about "Janeway fans as a minority".

Jean-Luc Picard wrote:

I love Janeway, and she is one of my favourite characters from across the Trek universe. The manner in which she died was, in my opinion, pretty ridiculous and the entire situation seemed unnecessary. But it is fiction. And there are other characters that I enjoy and want to keep up with. Not to mention that the books since then have been fantastic - I understand being annoyed with Janeway's death, but at the same time, it seems a tad myopic to let the death of one character spoil a whole franchise.

I can see your point here. In fact, there are other characters that I enjoy too and would like to keep up with.

But to be honest, the Voyager crew has already been shattered to the winds. OK, Chakotay is on Voyager and Kim is there too. But Kes was ruined in the series and there seem to be no interest in bringing her back in a decent way without further character destruction, Neelix was dumped on an asteroid and no one wants to bring him back either, Tuvok has been transferred to Riker's ship (or was it Enterprise), Tom and B'Elanna are "married with children" (maybe they've changed their surnames to Bundy ) The Doctor and Seven are Barclay's laboratory pets. And if that wasn't enough, now Janeway is killed off. You can see why I think that "enough is enough".

I do find it hard to enjoy that scenario so forgive me if I rather re-read masterpieces like "The Black Shore" by Greg Cox or "Marooned" by Christie Golden.

When I first read "The Black Shore", I read it from the first page to the last without any break because it was so good and so incredible exciting. Those were the days!

I can definitely understand your viewpoint here, as I don't agree with some of the creative decisions have been made. However, I'd really recommend that you try to get into some of the more recent books; try to focus on the characters that are still around and developing well, and you'll really enjoy them.

Unfortunately there are only two of them around. Chakotay and Kim since they are on the ship.

All the other good old favorites are missing.

Then we have Tuvok on Titan. OK, I like Tuvok, definitely a favorite but I guess that one have to be a super-fan of Tuvok to really enjoy his adventures there.

Still, I could give it a try but I guess that the fate of Janeway will be brought up there.


"There’s nothing for us here anymore"
Former Maquis Commander Novak to Kes in my fan-fiction story "Strange Dreams".

 

[Lynx]

Kes was ruined in the series and there seem to be no interest in bringing her back in a decent way without further character destruction

The "String Theory" trilogy? Neelix channelling Kes in "Pathways"?

What I can see, most of the debate here has been cordial, the insults I've seen so far has been aimed at me

The discussion of your comments being interpreted as insulting goes back to here, among other places:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2504674&postcount=244

The Kes story in "Pathways" was very good but it took place in past time and did nothing to restore or bring back the character to Voyager.

Although I liked the way the stupidities and worst character destruction in "Fury" were sorted out in the "String Theory" books, there were still too much of that "Fury" scenario left, with Kes going back to Ocampa at the end. It didn't totally restore the character and it didn't bring her back as a permanent character in the Voyager books.

As for my comments in the posts you've linked to, well they are the words of a very dissapointed fan and what I do feel about the whole thing.

Yes, I am dissapointed!

 

[Paris]

Unfortunately there are only two of them around. Chakotay and Kim since they are on the ship.

All the other good old favorites are missing.

Then we have Tuvok on Titan. OK, I like Tuvok, definitely a favorite but I guess that one have to be a super-fan of Tuvok to really enjoy his adventures there.

Still, I could give it a try but I guess that the fate of Janeway will be brought up there.

Remember that the Voyager books aren't limited to the goings on of the ship. I'm sure we'll see what's going on with B'elanna, and with Tuvok before he went to Romulus and then joined Titan. And you forgot to mention Tom Paris on Voyager. He's the first officer. IIRC, Seven is also supposed to rejoin the ship full time. The Doctor probably won't be neglected either.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Unfortunately there are only two of them around. Chakotay and Kim since they are on the ship.

All the other good old favorites are missing.

Then we have Tuvok on Titan. OK, I like Tuvok, definitely a favorite but I guess that one have to be a super-fan of Tuvok to really enjoy his adventures there.

You have to be a super-fan to enjoy a character.. the character has to be trapped in the amber of what you saw on tv.. eh. Really why bother? Writers write what they see as development and you see as destruction. You aren't interested in new Trek or changing Trek. Just stick with your 3 seasons of VOY and the books you already like.

Did you like the Dark Passions duo btw? Those were a riot I thought.. but maybe Kes wasn't in them, I don't recall offhand.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As for my comments in the posts you've linked to, well they are the words of a very dissapointed fan and what I do feel about the whole thing.

Yes, I am dissapointed!

You're allowed to be disappointed, but essentially you were blaming the current Pocket novel writers and editors for the actions of the VOY TV series' writers, directors and producers.

That same collective of Pocket writers and editors get lambasted by others for daring to allow Shatner to resurrect Kirk (twice) in his novels, and for the ENT Relaunch daring to resurrect Trip Tucker.

You want Kes and Janeway returned to VOY Relaunch novels, and yet poor ol' Neelix is back in the Delta Quadrant? Must he also come to Earth? Or you don't care about him, so he can rot? The producers of VOY didn't toss Kes off the show just to annoy you, nor do the Pocket writers refuse to return her miraculously to full health and youth just to annoy you.

And what of poor Janeway, a favourite character of yours, whose life you ignored for the last four years of her adventures on TV? And you've really only met Seven of Nine in two episodes. Maybe she'd have grown on you. A very talented actress playing a multilayered character who hasn't been killed off, neither on the show nor the books.

Sorry, I just find your knee-jerk reactions in this thread a bit too... knee-jerk.

 

[kipron]

I will likely never read any of these books.

But from what I can glean skimming through this thread, Janeway's death is about as unique and fitting as any other in the Trek mythos.

Okay, so she gets assimilated and dies as a Borg...sucks to be her.

But if some small, non-Borg part of her gave Seven a chance to save Earth...then that speaks to Janeways love of Seven and sounds exactly like something she'd do. I could totally picture her going out like that.

 

[Semah]

I will likely never read any of these books.

But from what I can glean skimming through this thread, Janeway's death is about as unique and fitting as any other in the Trek mythos.

Okay, so she gets assimilated and dies as a Borg...sucks to be her.

But if some small, non-Borg part of her gave Seven a chance to save Earth...then that speaks to Janeways love of Seven and sounds exactly like something she'd do. I could totally picture her going out like that.

I thought it was the best part of the book, and I'm not saying that out of any sort of Janeway hate. I've loved pretty much everything that PAD has written, but Before Dishoner was this trainwreck of a bunch of piled together plot points. But Janeway's ending was touching, noble, and in-character. It is a fitting end to her character arc.

 

[JD]

Personally, I'm glad that the authors have allowed the characters to actually leave Voyager. IMO they were stuck for 7 years, and a very busy 7 years at that, so it only makes sense for them to move on to different stuff once they got home. I know I sure wouldn't want to go right back out on the same ship I was stuck on for 7 years

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know I sure wouldn't want to go right back out on the same ship I was stuck on for 7 years

"A three-hour tour, a three-hour tour..."

 

[Lynx]

As for my comments in the posts you've linked to, well they are the words of a very dissapointed fan and what I do feel about the whole thing.

Yes, I am dissapointed!

You're allowed to be disappointed, but essentially you were blaming the current Pocket novel writers and editors for the actions of the VOY TV series' writers, directors and producers.

I'm not accusing them for what happened in the series but I'm accusing them for continuing the character destruction. I had expected something better from the authors since I've always regarded them for being better writers and caring more for the characters than Berman's gang.

That same collective of Pocket writers and editors get lambasted by others for daring to allow Shatner to resurrect Kirk (twice) in his novels, and for the ENT Relaunch daring to resurrect Trip Tucker.

So there are people who criticizes them for bringing back Kirk and Trip? No affection for the characters among those "fans". Believe me, if I was an ardent TOS or ENT fans, I would praise them for bringing them back.

You want Kes and Janeway returned to VOY Relaunch novels, and yet poor ol' Neelix is back in the Delta Quadrant? Must he also come to Earth? Or you don't care about him, so he can rot? The producers of VOY didn't toss Kes off the show just to annoy you, nor do the Pocket writers refuse to return her miraculously to full health and youth just to annoy you.

No, but they can't expect that I will enjoy their books. As for the writers and producers of the TV series, I have my own theory but discussing that here would take this thread out of topic. As for Neelix, I do toy with an idea for a story where he goes to Earth and starts seeking for his old friends so yes, I want him back too.

And what of poor Janeway, a favourite character of yours, whose life you ignored for the last four years of her adventures on TV? And you've really only met Seven of Nine in two episodes. Maybe she'd have grown on you. A very talented actress playing a multilayered character who hasn't been killed off, neither on the show nor the books.

I never ignored Janeway as character, I ignored Voyager because of the actions of the producers of the TV show. I actually bought "Homecoming" as soon as it was published because I expected the books to be better than the show. I won't call that ignoring the characters.

In fact, I have watched seasons 4-6 (up to "Fury") despite a two-year break (I borrowed tapes with the episodes to catch up with what was going on on TV) but I wasn't too happy with them. Something important was missing.

Sorry, I just find your knee-jerk reactions in this thread a bit too... knee-jerk.

Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't feel offended in any way.

 

[Lynx]

Unfortunately there are only two of them around. Chakotay and Kim since they are on the ship.

All the other good old favorites are missing.

Then we have Tuvok on Titan. OK, I like Tuvok, definitely a favorite but I guess that one have to be a super-fan of Tuvok to really enjoy his adventures there.

Still, I could give it a try but I guess that the fate of Janeway will be brought up there.

Remember that the Voyager books aren't limited to the goings on of the ship. I'm sure we'll see what's going on with B'elanna, and with Tuvok before he went to Romulus and then joined Titan. And you forgot to mention Tom Paris on Voyager. He's the first officer. IIRC, Seven is also supposed to rejoin the ship full time. The Doctor probably won't be neglected either.

What about Kes, Janeway and Neelix?

OK, I might look very negative here. In fact, I've tried to accept the changes which are made in the books, that all the main characters aren't exactly involved in the stories. I have actually adapted my own writing and ideas for stories after what's been happening in the relaunch books.

But Janeway's death ruins everything.

 

[Thrawn]

So there are people who criticizes them for bringing back Kirk and Trip? No affection for the characters among those "fans". Believe me, if I was an ardent TOS or ENT fans, I would praise them for bringing them back.

Most of the rest of your post is territory we've been over already, I just wanted to single this out and say - yes there ARE fans that criticize them for bringing back those characters! In fact, bringing Kirk back to life was deemed so outside the standard Trek continuity that the books where Kirk is alive have continued in their own separate continuity, neither bound to or by the mainstream continuity.

I, personally, am not interested in Kirk coming back to life; as far as I'm concerned, he's quite dead, and I'm very happy that he's stayed that way in mainstream continuity.

 

[Thrawn]

Unfortunately there are only two of them around. Chakotay and Kim since they are on the ship.

All the other good old favorites are missing.

Then we have Tuvok on Titan. OK, I like Tuvok, definitely a favorite but I guess that one have to be a super-fan of Tuvok to really enjoy his adventures there.

Still, I could give it a try but I guess that the fate of Janeway will be brought up there.

Remember that the Voyager books aren't limited to the goings on of the ship. I'm sure we'll see what's going on with B'elanna, and with Tuvok before he went to Romulus and then joined Titan. And you forgot to mention Tom Paris on Voyager. He's the first officer. IIRC, Seven is also supposed to rejoin the ship full time. The Doctor probably won't be neglected either.

What about Kes, Janeway and Neelix?

I remain confused about something.

Is your position that:

1) Whatever cast of regulars any TV show starts with, none of those people should ever die, period.

or:

2) You particularly liked Data, Kes, and Janeway, and are giving the novels up because those characters in particular are no longer in them.

or:

3) Because three characters have been killed, you're so worried about the rest of them being killed that you refuse to emotionally invest in any remaining stories.

I guess what I'm getting at is this - do you object to main characters dying in general, these specific main characters dying in particular, or the feeling that more main characters might join them?

 

[Lynx]

Remember that the Voyager books aren't limited to the goings on of the ship. I'm sure we'll see what's going on with B'elanna, and with Tuvok before he went to Romulus and then joined Titan. And you forgot to mention Tom Paris on Voyager. He's the first officer. IIRC, Seven is also supposed to rejoin the ship full time. The Doctor probably won't be neglected either.

What about Kes, Janeway and Neelix?

I remain confused about something.

Is your position that:

1) Whatever cast of regulars any TV show starts with, none of those people should ever die, period.

or:

2) You particularly liked Data, Kes, and Janeway, and are giving the novels up because those characters in particular are no longer in them.

or:

3) Because three characters have been killed, you're so worried about the rest of them being killed that you refuse to emotionally invest in any remaining stories.

I guess what I'm getting at is this - do you object to main characters dying in general, these specific main characters dying in particular, or the feeling that more main characters might join them?

Good questions which I will try to answer as honest as possible.

1) I'm not that rigid. OK, I don't like to see main characters being killed off but I have accepted it sometimes, due to why and how. For example, I really disliked that Kate was killed off in NCIS but I accepted that the actress wanted out.

2) Now we are getting close to the truth. But there are other characters I like very much too.

3) That's close to the truth too because if they can kill off the main character of Voyager (a character who also have a large group of ardent fans), then anything can be expected.

Most of the rest of your post is territory we've been over already, I just wanted to single this out and say - yes there ARE fans that criticize them for bringing back those characters! In fact, bringing Kirk back to life was deemed so outside the standard Trek continuity that the books where Kirk is alive have continued in their own separate continuity, neither bound to or by the mainstream continuity.

I, personally, am not interested in Kirk coming back to life; as far as I'm concerned, he's quite dead, and I'm very happy that he's stayed that way in mainstream continuity.

Personally I find the treatment of Kirk in "Generations" more and less insulting and if I had been an ardent TOS fan, I would have been outraged. Bringing him back only to kill him off in that silly end plot was insulting to the TOS fans (however, as a fan of TNG, I found most of the movie quite OK, except for the Kirk thing). So I do find it hard to understand that people are objecting if a writers tries to correct that.

But I guess that the books where Kirk is alive have gained a certain popularity among the TOS fans.

Kirk and the TOS crew also have an advantage here. According to Star Trek "canon", most of them were long-lived. So there is room for a lot of stories and action with all those main characters (including Kirk) between the last TOS movie and the timeline of TNG. That's not possible when it comes to TNG and DS9 and definitely not Voyager.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Data, Kes, and Janeway, and are giving the novels up because those characters in particular are no longer in them.

Spoiler: Data and "Countdown" comics

Data is back in "Countdown", the post-"Nemesis" comic prequel mini-series to JJ Abrams' "Star Trek" movie.

Kirk and the TOS crew also have an advantage here. According to Star Trek "canon", most of them were long-lived. So there is room for a lot of stories and action with all those main characters (including Kirk) between the last TOS movie and the timeline of TNG. That's not possible when it comes to TNG and DS9 and definitely not Voyager.

And yet, the Shatnerverse books have interactions between Janeway and Kirk.

I don't like to see main characters being killed off but I have accepted it sometimes, due to why and how. For example, I really disliked that Kate was killed off in NCIS but I accepted that the actress wanted out.

So did Brent Spiner!

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

What I am talking about are my personal feelings. I have mentioned before more than once that, of course, we have to wait and see. I just didn`t want to use this disclaimer every time in this thread or when this topic comes up.

Maybe I will be proven wrong. But at this moment in time I don`t think so.

Jericho, short lived though it was, was one of my favorite TV shows ever. At the end of the first season, one of my very favorite characters was killed off, abruptly and to my mind pointlessly. The show was then canceled, but a fan campaign brought it back for seven more episodes. I didn't participate in that fan campaign; one of my favorite characters was gone, the vibe of the show had changed, and it was just enough to push me past the point where I would've wanted to put time and energy into bringing the show back. I'd happily watch it if it was renewed, but I knew that it Wouldn't Be The Same.

Second season, when it finally aired for the woefully short 7 episodes that it did, introduced a new character that filled something of the role that my favorite character had. And, quite honestly, every moment he was on screen was brilliant. Perfect actor, perfect character, stunningly well written; he is, despite his short 7-episode run, one of my very favorite characters in all of TV history. And his story wouldn't have been possible without the death of the character at the end of first season.

(I haven't named names, just in case someone else wants to watch this series and not have it all spoiled by me.)

I had no way of knowing or expecting that would occur, aside from trusting that the people that'd come up with so many good stories in first season would continue to do so. I didn't put very much faith in that trust, and was proven wrong, making almost a year of worrying and "I just don't see how it could be as good" seem pretty goddamn stupid.

Now, is this kind of thing always the case? Absolutely not. But if nothing else, it taught me not to judge ahead of time. And, for whatever reason, it seems to me like just about everything Marco Palmieri ever touched turned to gold - the ideas and the stories weren't his, and I don't want to take any credit away from the fantastic writers that put them on paper, but it seems like he had an amazing ability to turn raw ideas into surprisingly incredible stories. Earlier in this thread, I noted that only 4 books Marco ever edited in the Trek line were books I didn't like. I might hate Full Circle, but past evidence would seem to indicate I should at least give it the benefit of the doubt, no matter how worried I may be about the setup.

I don`t know Jericho but I very much remember how I felt after the death of Marcus in Babylon 5. He was and still is one of my favourite characters of that show. I admit it, his death was extremely well written and touching but at the same time I hated it passionately. One of my friends who was a big Marcus fan, too, stopped watching Babylon 5 immediately and never came back.

I stayed with it because although Marcus death was a big loss to me there was also so much left that I enjoyed. Nevertheless, I don`t think the series ever filled the void he left behind. And later JMS wrote a certain short story that made me wonder that maybe, just maybe, in hindsight he thought he should have kept the character after all.

With Janeway and Voyager the situation is a bit different to me because I don`t like Janeway much. I am confident that the coming Voyager books will be good. But what we are talking about here are tie-in books, not original series like Jericho and Babylon 5. Janeway was not only a main, she was the lead character of a Star Trek series and in the books she has been killed off. That is a different scenario. I know that I wouldn`t feel happy if I ever buy a Babylon 5 book and it is decided that for whatever reason it is a good idea to kill Delenn off for good and that decision will be continued in all future books.