James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful)

[Devon]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

Mariner Class said:

Corran Horn said:
'all I feel comfortable sharing'? How pretentious. Either spill it all or don't say anything.

What an attention grab.

You noticed that too? How interesting.

Perhaps it's the fact we don't worship at the alter of JC.

Exactly. All I got from the thing was James Cawley pouting at something, and yet we know nothing more than we did (oh yeah, radically changed but then what's his definition of "Radical" i wonder?) Basically he knew he could get people eating out of his hands, yet we know nothing more. So what was the use?

 

[Twain]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

From a read of the New Voyages message board, it sounds to me like Mr. Cawley is worried that ST XI has pissed on their chips.

There's a thread asking whether New Voyages should continue, given that the new movie takes away their unique selling point. Predictably, as it was posted on a board full of NV fans, there are a dozen pages of "Of course you should! You're great! We love you" replies...

There have also been derogatory comments about the plot from Mr. Cawley which, if it involves the Guardian of Forever, seems to have superficial similarities to the NV episode "In Harm's Way".

Of course, all this is delivered with the usual party line that he wants ST XI to succeed etc.

But I don't think he does. I think the NV folks let their fan success go to their heads a long, long time ago. Heck, even before New Voyages managed to produce a decent episode (To Serve All My Days was the first of those), they were talking about themselves as if they were real Trek. I'm sure they harboured ambitions to be the official, licensed sequel... Surrounded by fawning fans and encouraged by their largely positive interaction with Paramamount/CBS, it's easy to see how that ludicrous delusion could have grown.

Now there's some real Trek on the horizon, it's reality check time for Mr. Cawley and crew. A multi-million dollar movie is coming, with a superlative cast of actors, a clear lineage to the original series, helmed by the safest pair of hands in genre film. And, of course, a Captain Kirk who isn't James Cawley.

Compared to the new movie, New Voyages begins to look like a bunch of Trekkies playing expensive dress-up in an old warehouse. Which, of course, is what it is. New Voyages is a fan film. It's a very good fan film, but it's still just a fan film. I think the NV creators had lost sight of that.

 

[ST-One]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

Twain said:
From a read of the New Voyages message board, it sounds to me like Mr. Cawley is worried that ST XI has pissed on their chips.

There's a thread asking whether New Voyages should continue, given that the new movie takes away their unique selling point. Predictably, as it was posted on a board full of NV fans, there are a dozen pages of "Of course you should! You're great! We love you" replies...

There have also been derogatory comments about the plot from Mr. Cawley which, if it involves the Guardian of Forever, seems to have superficial similarities to the NV episode "In Harm's Way".

Of course, all this is delivered with the usual party line that he wants ST XI to succeed etc.

But I don't think he does. I think the NV folks let their fan success go to their heads a long, long time ago. Heck, even before New Voyages managed to produce a decent episode (To Serve All My Days was the first of those), they were talking about themselves as if they were real Trek. I'm sure they harboured ambitions to be the official, licensed sequel... Surrounded by fawning fans and encouraged by their largely positive interaction with Paramamount/CBS, it's easy to see how that ludicrous delusion could have grown.

Now there's some real Trek on the horizon, it's reality check time for Mr. Cawley and crew. A multi-million dollar movie is coming, with a superlative cast of actors, a clear lineage to the original series, helmed by the safest pair of hands in genre film. And, of course, a Captain Kirk who isn't James Cawley.

Compared to the new movie, New Voyages begins to look like a bunch of Trekkies playing expensive dress-up in an old warehouse. Which, of course, is what it is. New Voyages is a fan film. It's a very good fan film, but it's still just a fan film. I think the NV creators had lost sight of that.

Well, I for one would like to see them (NV) get the 'Official!' label. But that is highly unlikely (unfortunately).

 

[StCoop]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

ST-One said:
Well, I for one would like to see them (NV) get the 'Official!' label. But that is highly unlikely (unfortunately).

If all you want is for Trek to retain the interest of only an ever decreasing number of hard-core fans, then sure live-action fan fiction with an almost fetishistic obsession with minutia is the way to go.

 

[ST-One]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

StCoop said:

ST-One said:
Well, I for one would like to see them (NV) get the 'Official!' label. But that is highly unlikely (unfortunately).

If all you want is for Trek to retain the interest of only an ever decreasing number of hard-core fans, then sure live-action fan fiction with an almost fetishistic obsession with minutia is the way to go.

That is actually not all I want.

What I want is that new movie (with all the re-designing, re-casting, re-anything that is needed) to be a huge success.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

Cranston said:
Those panels are very cool, Cary. Nice work.

I wonder about some of the more precise functions, though -- you've got a button for each function, but don't buttons sort of imply a toggle (on/off or yes/no)? You could get additonal options with function keys, which would certainly work for some things. But others, like firing phasers, aren't just "fire"; you also need to do targeting, and probably modify beam intensity. Same for things like the tractor beam.

But I think you're on to something. I'd be interested in hearing more.... :thumbsup:

Well, first off, remember that the Helmsman has a lot of "general control" functions... but everything he can do can be done with more precision at other stations. He can fire weapons, but his firing control is necessarily limited.

However, just to give you a few examples:

1) To raise a the topside shield:

PRESS 31 (SWITCH TO THE FIRE CONTROL OVERLAY)

PRESS 1 (IDENTIFY THE TOP SHIELD AS THE DEVICE BEING CONTROLLED)

PRESS 17 (SET SHIELD TO "STANDARD" STRENGTH LEVEL)

optional - PRESS 16 OR 18 TO ADJUST SHIELD STRENGTH

PRESS 1 (CLOSE THE TOP SHIELD CONTROL SUB-INTERFACE AND TRANSFER SHIELD CONTROL COMMAND TO THE MAIN SHIELD CONTROLLER)
- or -

PRESS 22 TO ABORT THE SHIELD CONTROL COMMAND SEQUENCE

Now, to fire phasers, you'd also be on that particular overlay. There's a cluster of nine buttons (13, 14, 15, 19, 20, 21, 25, 26, 27) that control targeting, plus several buttons associated with fire control (28, 29, 30) plus, as above, "abort" (22) and "slave out" (allowing other stations to take control of these functions... say, Spock at Science).

The reticle system has a "home" button to center the weapon on its default facing, cursor controls to pan it left/right/up/down, the ability to zoom in or out, the ability to show or hide the reticle, and a "track" function to flag the entry under the reticle as the "object of interest" (meaning that the weapon targeting system will always follow that flagged target).

SO... to fire the port phasers, you'd first go the the First Control overlay (31), then select the weapon system you want to control (7 for port phaser), then use the targeting control set to locate and flag the target (or use this to "best guess" a shot if targeting sensors aren't working... for instance, if you're in the Mutara Nebula). Once you've flagged the target, you'd bring the weapon bank to "ready to fire" state using button 29 (a toggle in this mode), lock on with button 28, and finally fire with button 30. You could also adjust the weapon strength using the same "standard/plus/minus" keys at 16/17/18.

It's not as convenient and probably not as accurate as a dedicated fire control station. So normally, you'd assume that the officer at this station would cede control over weapons to the fire control station (see Balance of Terror) for precision work. But the helm is the one station on the bridge that is always manned, no matter what, so he has to be able to deal with any emergency as it comes up, even if the forward phaser control room is unmanned or the weapons and defense bridge station is unoccupied.

Make sense?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Awful)

MisterPL said:
I like this design.

You know, so do I. It's a nice combination of the TV series ship and the original movie update (an update I don't remember anyone bitching about - certainly not like this).

You know what's also funny? There are pages of people screaming about whether or not to change the ship's exterior, but just about everyone feels they need to really alter the interior. I'm chuckling, really.

As long as the basic design remains (saucer, two nacelles, impluse section), I'm fine with it. More detail for the big screen will mostly likely be in order.

 

[Outpost4]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Awful)

^ It's wonderful to see a Twain post. He always puts his own spin on things and is a superb writer. If you past by it, go back up a few posts and read what he said.

There is more than a kernel of truth in what he wrote. While I would never accuse Mr. Cawley of acting with ill will on a conscious level, I personally know how competition can warp ones view of things. I faced intense competition in retail for 30 years and at times I would even choose to lose money to beat the competition.

Right now New Voyages is facing competition on a grand scale. That can color anybody's perspective.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful

Mysterion said:

MisterPL said:
I like this design.

(Sorry I can't post the pics here. I'm still a noob.)

Isn't that the Gabe Koerner (sp?) design from this years "Ship's of the Line" calendar?

It is.

ST-One said:
You could show us yours too

Oh pish. Everyone's seen mine already. (But if you haven't, click the link below. )

ST-One said:
BTW: Were this SFM or LWG I would point out that the light cast by the main light source is shining through the windows on the port side of the saucer's underside

Yeah, that's a bug in LightWave that's been around for years now. A minor flaw on an otherwise gorgeous model.

 

[jamesmc]

Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Awful)

Please do not pretend to know me or how I may be feeling.
Twain is wrong, I have not been critical about the plot on my board, Others have. I did post that I was previously aware of the Reported Plot that was leaked at least two weeks before it hit the net, and I did have a discussion about that reported plot with my NV's crewmates at a get together. When the reported plot hit the net, I reminded them on my forum that I had basically said this same plot to them.
As to why I asked the question to fan's about whether NV'S should continue in light of the New Film, I felt I should find out just who was watching us, and how they felt about our project. I got my answer.
Have I been openly critical of the REBOOT in The production design, YES. But, that is just my opinion, not everyone has to share in it. Do I feel like I am in competition with the New Film, That is ridiculous. I have Never been in competition with ANY Trek. Twain does NOT know me nor, have we ever spoke. If you all have not figured it out, I LOVE STAR TREK. All of it's incarnations, Even the Lousy episodes of each series, I like. I do not have to agree with other people's creative decisions, to like the finished product. I may not like the ship or costumes, but I may Love the performances and story. I am not so narrowminded, that I will let the production design prevent me from enjoying the film. Look, I personally think it is a mistake to change the look of the surroundings, and doing away with what I have been accustomed to for many years, But I do respect the Producers right to make up their own minds, and how they feel they have to challenge themselves creatively to tell "THEIR" story. I will be right there opening night to see it unfold, and As I have said elsewhere, I hope it is Good. So, Please do not put words into my mouth. I am Not feeling pinched or in competition with anything. Star Trek is a big, big sandbox and I get to play in one corner of it, while I get to ENJOY ALL OF IT!
James Cawley

 

[MadBaggins]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

What's with the random capitalisation?

 

[Outpost4]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

What's with coming in here and with seven posts, questioning the writing style of another poster?

Thank you, Mr. Cawley for your post. While I certainly would never presume to speak for Twain, in my case I was describing my unhealthy way of coping with competition. Try being a small independent stereo store and having Best Buy open up across the street.

Whether you view ST:11 as competition or not, may I suggest a strategy that worked for us? Look at what New Voyages can do well that Paramount can never do. Make films that emphasis those strengths.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

Twain expresses himself well, but IMAO he's completely off-base and misreading both this situation and James.

Beyond that, believe me - I've been involved up to my eyeballs with a number fan films for the last four or five years and never met anyone with enough drive and perspective to participate in successfully creating one who was either tunnel-visioned or ego-driven enough to consider themselves in competition with Paramount or any other commercial entity.

The caveat there, of course, is "successfully." The level of effort involved in setting up a website and announcing that you're the next Great Thing in Science Fiction is minimal, and there are an awful lot of folks who've done so and then never produced a frame of anything. They're not necessarily ill-motivated, but they are unrealistic.

 

[xortex]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

Tunnel visioned and ego driven - James Cawley - that sounds about right.

 

[Borgminister]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

xortex said:
Tunnel visioned and ego driven - James Cawley - that sounds about right.

Cheap shot.

Everyone is driven by ego to some extent, that's one, and two, one man's tunnel vision is another's passion to remain true to Trek's roots.

 

[Kegek]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

This is beside the point, I think. For the purposes of this discussion what matters about Mr. Cawley is that he is, in terms of keeping the ship looking the same, a purist - it better look exactly the same!

He's not satisfied with how it currently looks, which tells us it looks different. It doesn't tell us it doesn't look good, as Cawley's comments seem more concerned with continuity than aesthetics (and even those are a matter of taste). That's all that's really relevant.

Whether Cawley is an egomaniac or humility personified is another discussion, no?

 

[Garibaldi O'brien]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

In every revolution there is one man with a vision...

I'll leave it up the the masses to decide which man.

 

[Steve Roby]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

MadBaggins said:
What's with the random capitalisation?

What's "grammer"?

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

I would just like to add that I have no idea who the fuck James Cawley is and I don't really care what he thinks about anything. So there. Carry on.

 

[MacGyvr]

Re: James Cawley's grammer

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but there is something lacking from this debate from what I've read....marketing.

It is my understanding that the teaser trailer for "Star Trek" will primarily, if not solely, feature the Enterprise under construction. This in itself indicates that the movie is being marketed, at least initially, to the current world of Star Trek fans. Who else is going to be interested in seeing a ship under contstruction as opposed to snippets of an action sequence? Therefore, the Enterprise featured in the trailer and in the film MUST be HIGHLY recognizable as the Enterprise we all know and love. It simply wouldn't make any sense to be anything else. The fact that it will be "under construction" makes it even more critical to be recognized properly. To me, this negates most theories about radical changes to the design.