Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
/\Now that would be cool.
/\Now that would be cool.
James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful)
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Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Excellent point.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
I thought the Protector was a great design. I doubt the Enterprise is 99.9% even close to it though. I bet the most they've done was extend the nacells a little.
I thought the Protector was a great design. I doubt the Enterprise is 99.9% even close to it though. I bet the most they've done was extend the nacells a little.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
I love the NSEA Protector in Galaxy Quest, but I really wouldn't want to see it as the "real" Enterprise.
/Never Give Up Never Surrender!
I love the NSEA Protector in Galaxy Quest, but I really wouldn't want to see it as the "real" Enterprise.
/Never Give Up Never Surrender!
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Actually, push the wings in, and you have what many fear to be the Enterprise.
Garibaldi O'brien said:
I love the NSEA Protector in Galaxy Quest, but I really wouldn't want to see it as the "real" Enterprise.
/Never Give Up Never Surrender!
Actually, push the wings in, and you have what many fear to be the Enterprise.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Nope. Starfleet uses all kinds of subspace doohickeys to change the mass of their vessels, generate antigrav, and play with the laws of physics generally. And they've got rockets. They're not going to use wings to generate lift.
Nope. Starfleet uses all kinds of subspace doohickeys to change the mass of their vessels, generate antigrav, and play with the laws of physics generally. And they've got rockets. They're not going to use wings to generate lift.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Actually the Protector is exactly what I would imagine a Federation Pleasure Cruise Ship would look like. I wonder if Shatner would be selling discount tickets to it on Priceline?
Cmndr J Crichton said:
Garibaldi O'brien said:
I love the NSEA Protector in Galaxy Quest, but I really wouldn't want to see it as the "real" Enterprise.
/Never Give Up Never Surrender!
Actually, push the wings in, and you have what many fear to be the Enterprise.
Actually the Protector is exactly what I would imagine a Federation Pleasure Cruise Ship would look like. I wonder if Shatner would be selling discount tickets to it on Priceline?
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
New Voyages is a fine production, but there's much to be nitpicked about it as well.
I'm sure when you all see the new Enterprise, there will be mixed reactions at first, but you'll learn to love it.
It borrows from the original quite a bit, but beyond the basic forms and some colors, not much more.
If you want to watch Star Trek: Revisited, then check out New Voyages. If you want to watch Star Trek: Rebooted, check out "Star Trek." Both productions do a good job at what they do.
New Voyages is a fine production, but there's much to be nitpicked about it as well.
I'm sure when you all see the new Enterprise, there will be mixed reactions at first, but you'll learn to love it.
It borrows from the original quite a bit, but beyond the basic forms and some colors, not much more.
If you want to watch Star Trek: Revisited, then check out New Voyages. If you want to watch Star Trek: Rebooted, check out "Star Trek." Both productions do a good job at what they do.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
There's an old saying among engineers... ever heard of the "KISS Principle?"
"Keep it simple, stupid." KISS.
Wings don't require power. They work anytime you're in forward flight (though they work better when you go faster obviously). They're actually reasonably efficient.
If I were designing a vessel of any kind to operate in atmospheric flight, even if it had full antigrav/rocket/magical propulsion, I'd still want to have the ability to glide it in unpowered.
Granted, Trek seldom does this (and when they did do it, it never really made real scientific sense...like Voyagers never-used "Aerowing" which simply is totally non-aerodynamic).
But if we were talking REALITY, it makes perfect sense to rely on wings if you can.
I don't believe that Enterprise will have "wings." But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some other ship in this film did. Perhaps a Romulan spy vessel, for instance? Or a smaller Starfleet ship which carries troups (like Kirk's prior command may have)?
Well, as much as I hate to argue this point (since I agree with your CONCLUSION), I have to argue with this particular point.
There's an old saying among engineers... ever heard of the "KISS Principle?"
"Keep it simple, stupid." KISS.
Wings don't require power. They work anytime you're in forward flight (though they work better when you go faster obviously). They're actually reasonably efficient.
If I were designing a vessel of any kind to operate in atmospheric flight, even if it had full antigrav/rocket/magical propulsion, I'd still want to have the ability to glide it in unpowered.
Granted, Trek seldom does this (and when they did do it, it never really made real scientific sense...like Voyagers never-used "Aerowing" which simply is totally non-aerodynamic).
But if we were talking REALITY, it makes perfect sense to rely on wings if you can.
I don't believe that Enterprise will have "wings." But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some other ship in this film did. Perhaps a Romulan spy vessel, for instance? Or a smaller Starfleet ship which carries troups (like Kirk's prior command may have)?
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
And of course, allowing for most current rumors to carry a grain of truth there is every reason to think such a vessel would be in this film.
Sharr
And of course, allowing for most current rumors to carry a grain of truth there is every reason to think such a vessel would be in this film.
Sharr
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
With all due respect to James, I haven't seen anything said about the specifics of the ship. Specifically....what does it look like? Is the sillouhette the same? Is it a star destroyer with a saucer at the front? What?
Give out enough specifics and someone here'll prolly build a 3D model of it so that we can see as best we can what you saw.
However, as has been pointed out, looking at how faithfull Quinto looks as Spock, given that they had all the extra's walking around in raincoats knowing that Trekkers would find a way to get pics, I'm inclined to think that they would not allow just anyone to see the new Enterprise as it will really look.
Especially someone who's goal has been a faithful re-creation of the 60's show. It's not like it wouldn't have occured to them that such a person would A) Not like it and in the absence of a non-disclosure aggreement B) blab about how awful it is on the net. I mean, that's not going to win any friends and I'm sure that the "friends in high places" count is prolly not as high as it was before. Somethings just not right with this situation.
I mean, c'mon.....these guys are not ignorant of how certain things are gonna play with the fans, or even the general public. They know the design is iconic and I just can't see anyone messing too much with something that is as much a defining part of Trek as the characters.
Put me in the "I'll wait until something official appears" camp.
With all due respect to James, I haven't seen anything said about the specifics of the ship. Specifically....what does it look like? Is the sillouhette the same? Is it a star destroyer with a saucer at the front? What?
Give out enough specifics and someone here'll prolly build a 3D model of it so that we can see as best we can what you saw.
However, as has been pointed out, looking at how faithfull Quinto looks as Spock, given that they had all the extra's walking around in raincoats knowing that Trekkers would find a way to get pics, I'm inclined to think that they would not allow just anyone to see the new Enterprise as it will really look.
Especially someone who's goal has been a faithful re-creation of the 60's show. It's not like it wouldn't have occured to them that such a person would A) Not like it and in the absence of a non-disclosure aggreement B) blab about how awful it is on the net. I mean, that's not going to win any friends and I'm sure that the "friends in high places" count is prolly not as high as it was before. Somethings just not right with this situation.
I mean, c'mon.....these guys are not ignorant of how certain things are gonna play with the fans, or even the general public. They know the design is iconic and I just can't see anyone messing too much with something that is as much a defining part of Trek as the characters.
Put me in the "I'll wait until something official appears" camp.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Posting using phrases that suggest you actually know any of these things for a fact about the current film production does not make it so - and it's not.
Posting using phrases that suggest you actually know any of these things for a fact about the current film production does not make it so - and it's not.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
And I have total respect for what New Voyages, Exeter, Farragut, et. al (and hopefully someday me) are doing in concert with what J.J. and company hope to accomplish. Gene Roddenberry gave us all an incredible sand box to play in and it's a testament to what he and his people did 41 years ago that so many people want to hop in and play around for a bit.
And I have total respect for what New Voyages, Exeter, Farragut, et. al (and hopefully someday me) are doing in concert with what J.J. and company hope to accomplish. Gene Roddenberry gave us all an incredible sand box to play in and it's a testament to what he and his people did 41 years ago that so many people want to hop in and play around for a bit.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
(Talking Trek, not reality.) How big would the wings have to be, and/or how fast would the ship have to be travelling, to provide useful lift for a 100 umptybajillion ton starship? How many articulated control surfaces, flaps and whatnot, would be required to make the wings useful for controlled flight? How much extra energy would be required to provide SIF, navigational deflection, and combat shielding for wings of this size? How much would big wings increase the sensor cross section of a ship? I don't think it's a simple as bolting on a couple of wings and pronouncing the work done. But I could be wrong.
Eventually, technology becomes so reliable that the low-tech failsafes are abandoned. This is especially true when the conditions required for use of the low-tech are rare. There's always an anecdotal case where the the low-tech is still present and used to great benefit, but the exceptions do not make the rule--especially to budget-conscious government agencies.
(Talking Trek, not reality.) How big would the wings have to be, and/or how fast would the ship have to be travelling, to provide useful lift for a 100 umptybajillion ton starship? How many articulated control surfaces, flaps and whatnot, would be required to make the wings useful for controlled flight? How much extra energy would be required to provide SIF, navigational deflection, and combat shielding for wings of this size? How much would big wings increase the sensor cross section of a ship? I don't think it's a simple as bolting on a couple of wings and pronouncing the work done. But I could be wrong.
Eventually, technology becomes so reliable that the low-tech failsafes are abandoned. This is especially true when the conditions required for use of the low-tech are rare. There's always an anecdotal case where the the low-tech is still present and used to great benefit, but the exceptions do not make the rule--especially to budget-conscious government agencies.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
I've read the posts over at New Voyages and didn't see anything about wings. What did I miss?
I've read the posts over at New Voyages and didn't see anything about wings. What did I miss?
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Hey, it's the NX-01!
Hey, it's the NX-01!
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Trek is hardly technically accurate sci-fi, but still back in the day, Roddenberry was emphatic that the Enterprise not be suited to atmospheric flight. It was not to look aerodynamic or give any indication it could fly through the sky.
So wings? On a starship?
Of course, that said, in GEN we get a soft crash-landing of Ent-D's saucer, and in VOY we got the notorious "blue alert." So what the hell, let's have wings and while we're at it, give it wheels to travel on land, and let the thing be able to go under water, too.
Trek is hardly technically accurate sci-fi, but still back in the day, Roddenberry was emphatic that the Enterprise not be suited to atmospheric flight. It was not to look aerodynamic or give any indication it could fly through the sky.
So wings? On a starship?
Of course, that said, in GEN we get a soft crash-landing of Ent-D's saucer, and in VOY we got the notorious "blue alert." So what the hell, let's have wings and while we're at it, give it wheels to travel on land, and let the thing be able to go under water, too.
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