• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

James Cameron's Avatar movies discussion thread.

Just got back from it. I seem to have the heart of a TV fan and not a movie fan, because I actually really appreciate consistency in locations and other aspects of production design; there's something grounding about spending so much time in the reef, and revisiting the forest, seeing the humans using the same water-craft. I get taken out of the story when there's a lot of change for change's sake, like the Star Wars prequels, the MCU, the Dark Knight (which was then reversed by DKR incorporating much more stuff from Batman Begins back into the world). There's also the fact that this one could concentrate more on narrative momentum since we weren't getting a whole new biome with new rules to learn. I guess the drawback to remaining in the same settings largely was that it didn't reach the same level of bitchin'-ness as the previous film. I only shit myself with my mouth wide open during the closing action scene with the ships being chewed up by the magnetic tornado. No, I am never going to stop bringing up that James Cameron quote.

The dialog was more naturalistic and didn't have the leadenness of other Cameron scripts (I don't remember to what degree that was the case for Way of Water, though). It probably could've used a little more humor, I think my only laugh was Kiri doing the "Aliens" line. Overall, I think centering the movie on the family's grief over Neteyam's death and how it affected all of them, from Jake trying to repress the whole thing, Lo'ak being suffocated by his feelings of culpability, and Neytiri sublimating all of her bigotry and rage about her family's human heritage into blaming Spider for existing.

The Ash people were a good addition to show that things aren't all peace and love on Pandora, and that the "insanity" of human avarice and warmongering isn't exclusive to them (which is what brings Neytiri back around). I think that perspective shift will be important in what I assume is the endgame of the series, a return to Earth to try and bring humanity back into symbiosis with their own homeworld.

I think Cameron is on to something with using high frame rates only sometimes to avoid the "soap-opera effect" and as a dramatic device, but I don't think the balance was as good as it was in Way of Water. There were many more cases where I noticed the frame rate step back down to (I assume) 24 FPS, but I'd gotten used to the smoother motion and it seemed to "step" visually. I'm not sure how many different speeds were used in the film, but experientially, my guess is that it went as fast as 96 FPS, which set the psychological benchmark for "too smooth," and made 48 FPS feel cinematic, and 24 feel slide-showy. I support more experimentation with variable frame rates as a dramatic device, but I think that is going to require a lot of growing pains until the "vocabulary" is worked out.

I hadn't been to the theater in a while, I forgot how good Dolby screens look. I'd gotten used to them when I was seeing movies in the cinema more regularly and stopped appreciating how big the difference is. It also doesn't help that the pre-roll with the side-by-side comparisons don't make the normal screen look crappy enough to be an authentic demonstration. I saw a demo in a professional color correction suite when Dolby Cinema was first being rolled out in 2017 or so, and the guy there showed us demo footage on his conventional mastering monitor first just so we could know what it looked like (pretty good!), then the HDR monitor, which was visibly better, and then he turned the conventional monitor back on and it was shocking how gray and flat it looked when it was side-by-side with the HDR screen; it looked almost like uncorrected log footage, even though it'd seemed bright and colorful a few minutes earlier before we'd seen the alternative.

So the only question is - when do they start on Avatar 4 and 5.

I think they already have, technically. I remember before Way of Water came out, there was an interview where Cameron or others were talking about the filming plan, and how they'd had to shoot 2, 3, and part of 4 as close together as they could, then there was a time-jump partway through 4, so they could pick up production of the last 70% of the movie or whatever it was later on after 2 and 3 had been finished.
 
My family and I went to see it yesterday and I really enjoyed it, although I do wish I'd been able to rewatch The Way of Water beforehand because there were things that I didn't remember.

Narratively, I liked the introduction of the Ash People and Oona Chaplin's female baddie and am excited to see where we go next with them. I also really loved the climax (Zack Snyder-style action is fun to me) and also loved that we got an actual Eucatastrophe (although it could've come slightly faster because I was visibly on the edge of my seat waiting for it).

I also really hope Quaritch is gone permanently because I can't stand him.

Neytiri's internal hatred was an interesting development, although I do wish we'd been shown it more rather than just told about it, as it would've made the scene where she and Jake argue and he accuses her of hating him and her own kids have even more emotional power than it did.

The only downside to how good the movie was is that we still have to keep waiting for a sequel to my favorite movie ever, Alita: Battle Angel, but that's really neither here nor there.
 
Last edited:
I just saw the movie yesterday and this is my view about the two main villains.

Stephen Lang plays Colonel Quaritch very well but i am getting bored of him coming back for every Avatar movie. Hopefully they killed him off with that fall but i suspect that he will be back for the 4th movie.

As for Varang, she was actually more evil than Quaritch. Quaritch was after Sully for betraying him, the marine corps and earth. So Quaritch had his reasons for attacking the Na'vi but he also still loved Spider, his son who sided with the Na'vi. Whereas, Varang wanted to see the whole world burn just because she lost her faith in Eywa. Varang is a way more of a chaotic evil figure. Oona Chaplin did a fantastic job playing her but Varang should have died as well.

The movie would have been alot better if both Varang and Quaritch had died at the end.
 
I just saw the movie yesterday and this is my view about the two main villains.

Stephen Lang plays Colonel Quaritch very well but i am getting bored of him coming back for every Avatar movie. Hopefully they killed him off with that fall but i suspect that he will be back for the 4th movie.

As for Varang, she was actually more evil than Quaritch. Quaritch was after Sully for betraying him, the marine corps and earth. So Quaritch had his reasons for attacking the Na'vi but he also still loved Spider, his son who sided with the Na'vi. Whereas, Varang wanted to see the whole world burn just because she lost her faith in Eywa. Varang is a way more of a chaotic evil figure. Oona Chaplin did a fantastic job playing her but Varang should have died as well.

The movie would have been alot better if both Varang and Quaritch had died at the end.
Varang will return in Avengers Doomsday ;)
 
One detail that jumped out at me: late in Fire and Ash, Giovanni Ribisi's Parker Selfridge asks General Ardmore if she really wants to "wake up the [RDA] Chairman." Said guy is obviously on Earth, or we'd have met him, so are we really to believe that the humans have tech that can communicate across 4.6 light years in anything like real time?! And hey, since when is Selfridge back on Pandora in the first place? The trip takes nearly seven years, right? So, if Fire and Ash starts a few weeks after The Way of Water ends, he should logically have been on the same shipment that delivered Na'vi-Quaritch a few months before? Even if there are monthly supply flights to Pandora, for him to have left Earth years before Na'vi-Quaritch even arrived to Pandora, and shown up between these two movies is... well, I'm not sure it's a coincidence, but it's at least a bit odd, right?
 
One detail that jumped out at me: late in Fire and Ash, Giovanni Ribisi's Parker Selfridge asks General Ardmore if she really wants to "wake up the [RDA] Chairman." Said guy is obviously on Earth, or we'd have met him, so are we really to believe that the humans have tech that can communicate across 4.6 light years in anything like real time?! And hey, since when is Selfridge back on Pandora in the first place? The trip takes nearly seven years, right? So, if Fire and Ash starts a few weeks after The Way of Water ends, he should logically have been on the same shipment that delivered Na'vi-Quaritch a few months before? Even if there are monthly supply flights to Pandora, for him to have left Earth years before Na'vi-Quaritch even arrived to Pandora, and shown up between these two movies is... well, I'm not sure it's a coincidence, but it's at least a bit odd, right?

I wonder if something went on behind the scenes or with actor availability. It looks like the character Charles Stringer was meant to be his actual replacement, but he is barely seen in 2 and then not at all in 3? So maybe the lines for Selfridge were actually for the Stringer character?

Also looking at the wiki, the Chairman is Selfridge's father? I must have blinked and missed that.
 
Said guy is obviously on Earth, or we'd have met him, so are we really to believe that the humans have tech that can communicate across 4.6 light years in anything like real time?!

Background material from the first film said RDA had a quantum-entanglement communicator so they could talk to Earth immediately(-ish), but it was extremely low-bandwidth, three bits an hour. So even with some super-efficient encoding and short-hand, it would still take hours to days to get a message back. Maybe a bit faster, if the technology improved since before the first movie when that guidebook “took place,” though at the very most, it’d be comparable to a telegram and Morse code.

I also thought it was odd that Selfridge was back out of nowhere, especially knowing there was a significant time-skip within the time-skip in TWoW where the graphic novel took place and all the ships were unloaded, so it’s unlikely he just hadn’t been thawed out yet. I suppose it’s possible that not all the ships arrived at once, or simply that he was around but off-screen in the prior movie.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top