James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Blue_Trek]

WOW, in just 17 days Avatar passes The Dark Knight total worldwide gross, that is a crazy statistic.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Even if people think they will dislike the movie they just have to see it I guess. I keep hearing about sold out shows, even now.

 

[Lt. Trull]

Someone's gotta' find an appropriate picture of Cameron to make one of those "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am" posters.

This one perhaps;

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/img/a/avatar/A-35450.jpg

you might want to use that TMZ photo of him cussing out that fan of his...

 

[T'Baio]

WOW, in just 17 days Avatar passes The Dark Knight total worldwide gross, that is a crazy statistic.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Even if people think they will dislike the movie they just have to see it I guess. I keep hearing about sold out shows, even now.

That's insane! Cameron is easily gonna' have the #1 and #2 all time worldwide money makers! Just...insane. He can pretty much do anything he wants, now, that's for sure.

 

[JacksonArcher]

WOW, in just 17 days Avatar passes The Dark Knight total worldwide gross, that is a crazy statistic.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Even if people think they will dislike the movie they just have to see it I guess. I keep hearing about sold out shows, even now.

That's insane! Cameron is easily gonna' have the #1 and #2 all time worldwide money makers! Just...insane. He can pretty much do anything he wants, now, that's for sure.

With that power I would just do something really awful just because I could.

 

[Harvey]

But, consider the people in the thread who changed the movie in their reviews, saying Jake the white guy saved the Indians, so they can argue the movie is racist. Since Eywa's magical intervention clearly saves the day, the only valid criticism of Avatar is that is arbitrarily (i.e., uses really crap fictional science) posits a Religion That Works.

It's not explicit in the film, but it seemed to me that Eywa intervened because Grace (Sigourney Weaver) died and imparted her knowledge to Eywa and/or because of the prayer Jake gives to Eywa just before the final battle. Both instances of a human character doing what the 'primitives' could not with their own belief system. And although it is the timely intervention (a deus ex machina if there ever was one) of Eywa that ultimately defeats the humans, without Jake's own intervention that unites the Na'vi they would have likely been wiped out before Mother Nature did anything. Jake alone may have not saved the Na'Vi, but without him the Na'Vi would have likely perished.

Also, the most blatantly racist thing in the movie is the insane claim that the soldiers while on Earth were fighters for freedom. But no one even appeared to notice, much less object!

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

 

[T'Baio]

If I was him, I would actually make Dances With Smurfs. Just to piss those certain people off!

 

[Trekker4747]

What have movie studios learned from all of this? Hire Cameron and you just made yourself a billion dollars.



Look, I liked this movie, it was good. But for it to speed to a billion dollars in a little over two weeks? Holy shit! It wasn't that good! (Though, we must all consider that its 3D ticket prices are 50% more than than normal ticket prices.)

 

[Hyperspace05]

In many places (like where I live), the extra for 3D is only $2.

 

[Brit]

And here in the Dallas - Fort Worth area it was only three dollers more.

Brit

 

[Star Wolf]

Also, the most blatantly racist thing in the movie is the insane claim that the soldiers while on Earth were fighters for freedom. But no one even appeared to notice, much less object!

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

I think it was by Jake Sully as he rolled down the transport's ramp and noticed all of the mercenaries marching around

 

[Harvey]

What have movie studios learned from all of this? Hire Cameron and you just made yourself a billion dollars.



Look, I liked this movie, it was good. But for it to speed to a billion dollars in a little over two weeks? Holy shit! It wasn't that good! (Though, we must all consider that its 3D ticket prices are 50% more than than normal ticket prices.)

Also consider that the movie has grossed 1 billion dollars, but that is in no way reflective of the film's profit. Consider the substantial cost of the production (200-300 million, or more, depending on the source), marketing, and the fact that grosses are split between exhibitors and distributors, and the final total will be far less. On the other hand, its still making boatloads of money. So much money that I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the business it's doing.

Also, the most blatantly racist thing in the movie is the insane claim that the soldiers while on Earth were fighters for freedom. But no one even appeared to notice, much less object!

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

I think it was by Jake Sully as he rolled down the transport's ramp and noticed all of the mercenaries marching around

So, in the beginning of the movie, when Jake very much buys into what is happening on Pandora and cooperates with the military?

 

[Star Wolf]

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

I think it was by Jake Sully as he rolled down the transport's ramp and noticed all of the mercenaries marching around

So, in the beginning of the movie, when Jake very much buys into what is happening on Pandora and cooperates with the military?

At the beginning of the movie and until the attack on the tree Jake was a US Marine who since being wounded took over his dead brothers commission. More then his brother's memory he also was again a recon Marine again. After providing intell on the Na'vi he was pulled away from the security contractors and set up in an off-site remote unit with a pilot and the scientist.

 

[Trekker4747]

What have movie studios learned from all of this? Hire Cameron and you just made yourself a billion dollars.



Look, I liked this movie, it was good. But for it to speed to a billion dollars in a little over two weeks? Holy shit! It wasn't that good! (Though, we must all consider that its 3D ticket prices are 50% more than than normal ticket prices.)

Also consider that the movie has grossed 1 billion dollars, but that is in no way reflective of the film's profit. Consider the substantial cost of the production (200-300 million, or more, depending on the source), marketing, and the fact that grosses are split between exhibitors and distributors, and the final total will be far less. On the other hand, its still making boatloads of money. So much money that I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the business it's doing.

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

I think it was by Jake Sully as he rolled down the transport's ramp and noticed all of the mercenaries marching around

So, in the beginning of the movie, when Jake very much buys into what is happening on Pandora and cooperates with the military?

I would figure all of the marketing, production and distribution costs of this movie would be around $400m-$500m. This movie is really raking them in the cash and will likely sell well on DVD. So, yeah, I'd say the studio is very happy.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, the most blatantly racist thing in the movie is the insane claim that the soldiers while on Earth were fighters for freedom.

Eh? What's racist about that?

 

[stj]

It's not explicit in the film, but it seemed to me that Eywa intervened because Grace (Sigourney Weaver) died and imparted her knowledge to Eywa and/or because of the prayer Jake gives to Eywa just before the final battle. Both instances of a human character doing what the 'primitives' could not with their own belief system. And although it is the timely intervention (a deus ex machina if there ever was one) of Eywa that ultimately defeats the humans, without Jake's own intervention that unites the Na'vi they would have likely been wiped out before Mother Nature did anything. Jake alone may have not saved the Na'Vi, but without him the Na'Vi would have likely perished.

The knowledge that Grace imparts is the knowledge of what humans do to biospheres. It is a real stretch turning that into Great White Mother saving the poor primitives with her superior knowledge. The so called primitives don't believe in intercessory prayer, which makes them less primitive in my book than those who do. So far from Jake's superior knowledge saving the day, it's implied that Jake's confession of human evil prompted Eywa's intervention. Again, it's a real stretch to read this as a racist fantasy.

Lastly, Jake does not unify the clans: There was no montage of him repeating his eloquence on the other groups. Even in the first sequence, he asks Tsu'tey for help. And, I don't think anyone should attribute superior wisdom to someone who successfully encourages the displaced victims to fight the people who destroyed their Home Tree.

What Jake really contributes is, first, telling Max to stay behind as a spy, and second, warning about the attack on the tree of souls. This is clever enough but not cultural supriority. All the business with the turok is about getting the Na'vi to listen to him at all. Which the narration specifically says!

Racist? Perhaps. Definitely jingoistic. My memories of what the film stated about life on Earth are vague. Who makes this statement and when in the film?

Not racism as a genetic determinist or socalled "scientific" racist, would have it, no. But for sixty years the US army has found it necessary to "defend" the US/fight for freedom in the remote homelands of darker-skinned peoples. Irrational racial fears are the only explanation for why people believe this nonsense.

 

[Lt. Trull]

Ahhhh.... grace provides something greater then just information about biospheres... how many ph'd's did she have... That's a lot of information then just about biospheres that eywa now has absorbed...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Not racism as a genetic determinist or socalled "scientific" racist, would have it, no. But for sixty years the US army has found it necessary to "defend" the US/fight for freedom in the remote homelands of darker-skinned peoples. Irrational racial fears are the only explanation for why people believe this nonsense.

We fight for freedom wherever we have to. If those who threaten us happen to have slightly darker skin, well, whatever.

And I might add that 1) The US army is thoroughly integrated as to race, and 2) Even so, we've fought against white people before (World War II, anyone?).

 

[Harvey]

Lastly, Jake does not unify the clans: There was no montage of him repeating his eloquence on the other groups. Even in the first sequence, he asks Tsu'tey for help. And, I don't think anyone should attribute superior wisdom to someone who successfully encourages the displaced victims to fight the people who destroyed their Home Tree.

Your recollection of the scene contradicts my own. Particular emphasis is placed upon Jake's taming of the Toruk. Dialogue tells us that only five Na'vi in history have ever tamed this beast, which instantly indicates Jake's superiority. Though he asks Tsu'tey for help (indeed, he needs it--the film is wise enough to avoid pretending that Jake could become fluent in the Na'vi language in three short months, which does deflate some of Jake's superiority), my rememberence is that the Na'vi rally around Jake as their leader.

But, I definitely need to see the film again to have a firmer grasp of the finer points of its plot. My attention when I saw it the first time was clearly inclined to the visuals.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

The freedom fighter comment was probably James Cameron's preemptive attempt to diffuse any criticism that his movie is anti-military or something.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Fat lot of good THAT did.