Jadzia Dax death

[Seven of Five]

Her death still bugs me.

Either she should have gone down fighting, or she could have been reassigned by Starfleet as some sort of fallout to Change of Heart.

 

[Oddish]

And then she could have periodically returned, just like Terry Farrell wanted. Infinitely superior to the "Superman's dead, just kidding, no he's not" trick they threw at us.

 

[DonIago]

I thought bringing Dax back in a new host was a fairly neat trick, and something they couldn't have done with any of the other characters without a lot more creative writing, but having it happen here was unfortunate because it meant the viewers were being introduced to a new and significant character in the last season of the show.

The execution of it was also a bit lackluster and somewhat ridiculously telegraphed especially given the events of the prior episode.

Personally I also really would have liked to see Dax return in a male host, but I understand the concerns there (only one female regular cast member).

 

[SimiOne]

Another similarity with Babylon 5. Loosing a main cast member for the final season because of contract issues like Claudia Christian / Susan Ivanova.
I was really disappointed as they left their roles and the impact for the series was not good in both cases.

In my opinion,with Jadzia death Terry Farrell and the Producers waisted a chance for her to appear in one of the TNG-Movie's.
Jadzia would have fit in perfectly alongside Worf and the TNG-Cast on Insurrection!

 

[Paul755]

In my opinion,with Jadzia death Terry Farrell and the Producers waisted a chance for her to appear in one of the TNG-Movie's.
Jadzia would have fit in perfectly alongside Worf and the TNG-Cast on Insurrection!

It’s been a while since I read Pillers book about the making of Insurrection. But I seem to remember he mentions that he did have a line in the movie where Picard asks Worf about Jadzia. I think he says it got nixed in part because Stewart wasn’t aware of that plot line from DS9 and it confused him.

 

[Tosk]

It’s been a while since I read Pillers book about the making of Insurrection. But I seem to remember he mentions that he did have a line in the movie where Picard asks Worf about Jadzia. I think he says it got nixed in part because Stewart wasn’t aware of that plot line from DS9 and it confused him.

At the risk of furthering the "Berman is pure evil" narrative, it was apparently him who decided the brief reference should be dropped...

Rick ultimately decided that it would be confusing to audience members who were not regular viewers of Deep Space Nine so we ignored the death of Worfʼs wife.

I'm glad it was dropped, to be honest. In the first crack at lines intended for INS, Worf tells Picard that she died an honorable death, which is not the position he holds in the DS9 eps.

 

[Paul755]

there you go, I knew it was something like that.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

It’s been a while since I read Pillers book about the making of Insurrection. But I seem to remember he mentions that he did have a line in the movie where Picard asks Worf about Jadzia. I think he says it got nixed in part because Stewart wasn’t aware of that plot line from DS9 and it confused him.

Nothing to do with Stewart. At the time, shows weren’t released in sync globally, so in European areas, when Insurrection released, there were countries that were only on DS9’s FIFTH season, and the line was a spoiler, since the film was released globally. Probably another reason we didn’t get any real war focus or attention in Insurrection.

 

[Whizkid]

So I am currently examining through a rewatch the death of the much beloved Jadzia Dax. There is literally no plot point to her death… she was randomly and coincidentally in the Bajoran temple at the same time that ‘Wraith’ Gul Dukat decided to appear in order to take the orb, it could have been anyone in that temple. A perfect example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is like ‘Skin of Evil’ to some extent, or is that the point?

I think that precisely was the point. Terry Farrell wanted out, and so they did a repeat of Denise Crosby.

Worst consequence? It constrained the arc of Dukat.

 

[kkt]

I think that precisely was the point. Terry Farrell wanted out, and so they did a repeat of Denise Crosby.

Worst consequence? It constrained the arc of Dukat.

Yes. By the time that it was definite that Farrell wouldn't be returning, they had to work her death in as a short couple of scenes added to an otherwise unrelated episode.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

They could've written an episode where, say, Jadzia and "Dax" are sick and dying, and a relative of a previous host, or a host of a symbiont "Dax" knew from the pool wants to sacrifice Jadzia that "Dax" might live. They could have two endings filmed, one if Ferrell stays, Jadzia lives, and the other if Ferrell leaves, Jadzia dies.

Incidentally, it might've been interesting if instead of having Ezri, you had it where "Dax" dies and Jadzia gets paired with another symbiont. So when she comes back, she's very different and has to adjust. Everyone else has to go through the reverse of what Sisko did - instead of seeing their old friend, only different host, but all the memories remain, their friend looks the same, but thinks differently.

 

[Trekker09]

After leaving the show, Farrell remained friends with the cast, Visitor especially....that was one fortunate outcome.

 

[DonIago]

Incidentally, it might've been interesting if instead of having Ezri, you had it where "Dax" dies and Jadzia gets paired with another symbiont. So when she comes back, she's very different and has to adjust. Everyone else has to go through the reverse of what Sisko did - instead of seeing their old friend, only different host, but all the memories remain, their friend looks the same, but thinks differently.

It's an interesting idea, but based on what we've seen established about Trill society thus far, and the fact that there aren't a lot of symbionts out there (in fact, it's a plot point that the Trill government suppresses the fact that more Trill could be joined than is generally believed in order to protect the limited symbiont population), it seems unlikely that if Jadzia lost Dax (and somehow survived the process, since that would be the exception rather than the rule) that she would be given another symbiont. The most likely scenario would seem to be that Jadzia was in a situation with another joined Trill where their host died while the symbiont survived, while vice-versa for Jadzia.

 

[Farscape One]

I was just about to say the exact same thing.

Basically, symbiotes take priority over the host. "A host is only a link in a chain", said Sisko in "REJOINED". He was echoing back what Curzon said to him, and as stated above, events of "EQUILIBRIUM" also show hosts are a secondary consideration compared to the symbiote.

In a way, I find that aspect of Trill society rather haunting... instead of wanting to be themselves, they'd rather surrender who they are to blend with another lifeform, essentially erasing who they are because you now become a combination of symbiote and yourself. You are never you again. It's a kind of death, really.

I suppose the idea of a part of you existing long after you're dead is very appealing, but I wonder if that also highlights a more nihilistic view among Trill regarding death.

I think this might be worth a deeper discussion in its own thread...

 

[fireproof78]

I suppose the idea of a part of you existing long after you're dead is very appealing, but I wonder if that also highlights a more nihilistic view among Trill regarding death.

I wonder if it might showcase a more experiential idea of life, that life is about different experiences and reactions. With the bonding between a humanoid and a symbiote there is a sharing of experiences over several life times from a humanoid's point of view. From that point of view life is shared experiences so there is an appeal of experiencing these new things from a different point of view.

To use a poor analogy, it's like sharing an experience with a friend or family member, vs. going out and experience it all by yourself. There is an appeal to the communal nature of humans (at least, possibly other species) to have this shared experience.

I don't see it as nihilistic, but rather more communally focused life. No "I" but "we" experience this.

 

[Farscape One]

I wonder if it might showcase a more experiential idea of life, that life is about different experiences and reactions. With the bonding between a humanoid and a symbiote there is a sharing of experiences over several life times from a humanoid's point of view. From that point of view life is shared experiences so there is an appeal of experiencing these new things from a different point of view.

To use a poor analogy, it's like sharing an experience with a friend or family member, vs. going out and experience it all by yourself. There is an appeal to the communal nature of humans (at least, possibly other species) to have this shared experience.

I don't see it as nihilistic, but rather more communally focused life. No "I" but "we" experience this.

I see what you mean, and that's certainly one positive way to look at it.

The only reason I lean toward them being more nihilistic and not your view is most unjoined Trill we meet never give off that impression or zest for life, for lack of a better phrase.

Compare a typical Trill with a typical Klingon. Klingons definitely have a zest for life, and despite their ready to rush headlong into scenarios that could kill them, they never lose that zest. (One could also argue that they have that zest because they are so willing to rush into danger.) Trills, at least the unjoined ones, seem somewhat mundane. Almost like they don't feel alive unless they are joined. They don't really give off that spark.

Either theory merits some more deep thoughts. I might have to consult Jack Handy...

 

[fireproof78]

The only reason I lean toward them being more nihilistic and not your view is most unjoined Trill we meet never give off that impression or zest for life, for lack of a better phrase.

Wouldn't that come down to a value, that a life without connection is less zestful? Who, to frame a different way, a communal experience vs. an individual experience.

Klingons rush headlong in but they are also champions of the individual as well as the glory of the empire. They value their own personal experience, vs. the Trill who value a shared experience.

 

[Lynx]

I wish that they hadn't killed off Jadzia.
If the actress wanted to leave, they could have given Jadzia a post on the Enterprise or something like that. Then she could have made a guest appearance in the last episode.
Ezri could have been added as a sister to Jadzia. In a way she almost was.

I hate when good characters are killed off.
Yesterday I saw the episode where Gowron was killed off.
What a waste! You don't kill off such a fascinating character!
I will restore him in some story, stating that it was a changeling who was killed ooff.

 

[DonIago]

I was just about to say the exact same thing.

Basically, symbiotes take priority over the host. "A host is only a link in a chain", said Sisko in "REJOINED". He was echoing back what Curzon said to him, and as stated above, events of "EQUILIBRIUM" also show hosts are a secondary consideration compared to the symbiote.

In a way, I find that aspect of Trill society rather haunting... instead of wanting to be themselves, they'd rather surrender who they are to blend with another lifeform, essentially erasing who they are because you now become a combination of symbiote and yourself. You are never you again. It's a kind of death, really.

I suppose the idea of a part of you existing long after you're dead is very appealing, but I wonder if that also highlights a more nihilistic view among Trill regarding death.

I think this might be worth a deeper discussion in its own thread...

If you haven't read it, there's a DS9 novella set after the series that took a good look at Trill society, especially the Joined vs. Unjoined tension. It covers a lot of ground and I rather enjoyed it. IIRC one major plot point is that it gets leaked to the public that many more Trill could be joined if they wanted to be than was generally believed.

I see where you're coming from in terms of "erasing" who they are, but I imagine many people would view it as "enhancing" who they are. As an example, I used to do medieval reenactment, and the idea of having the memories and experiences of someone who'd been there for the actual events is intriguing.

 

[fireproof78]

What a waste! You don't kill off such a fascinating character!

No character should live forever.