I've always kind of liked the Todega class as well. The Oberth frame seems to me like one of the easiest to modify and produce fairly cheaply.
Jackill Starships Appreciation
- Thread starter Arpy
- Start date
A fair question to ask him.
Forbin, I'm going to pretend I didn't read that last bit. Go sit under a tree in shame and contemplate your part in our ecosystem.
Unicorn, I dunno, I feel he lost me a bit with those. I don't think tractor beam emitters need to be anywhere near that huge. That looks like it was build to tug spacedock, or maybe the Moon. I like the design, but maybe if it were a ship half this size.
Similar with the four nacelles. A tug won't be doing any fancy battle maneuvers at top speeds; it just needs to lug its catch from point A to B. Like the single nacelle on the Aztec Class dry dock, it maybe only needs 1 or 2 nacelles. Clunky ones too - strong (for endless tugging), but not as high-tech or maneuverable as a Constitution's.
Unicorn, I dunno, I feel he lost me a bit with those. I don't think tractor beam emitters need to be anywhere near that huge. That looks like it was build to tug spacedock, or maybe the Moon. I like the design, but maybe if it were a ship half this size.
Similar with the four nacelles. A tug won't be doing any fancy battle maneuvers at top speeds; it just needs to lug its catch from point A to B. Like the single nacelle on the Aztec Class dry dock, it maybe only needs 1 or 2 nacelles. Clunky ones too - strong (for endless tugging), but not as high-tech or maneuverable as a Constitution's.
Good to know about the place names - although Russia renamed the battlecruiser Kirov, after the fall in '92, to the "Admiral Ushakov."
Forbin, did you ever model any of the old FASA designs like the Chandley, Northhampton, or Loknar?
I'm not into FASA. Frankly, it's like they consciously try to make the ships as ugly as possible, let alone like anything from canon. I wonder if they're afraid of getting sued? But in the interests of inclusiveness, here are some designs I could work with:
Chandley Class -- I'm a fan of designs that bring in new shapes (saucers, cylinders, spheres) and configurations (Constitution, Miranda, Constellation) to play with. I think the nacelle pylons here fan out too much, and the overall shape gives me a bit too much of a K'tinga stardrive section vibe, but I kinda like the Chandley Class.
Charger Class -- another collection of simple shapes and new configuration. Though alas it breaks the Roddenberry's Rules, I like the single nacelle here suggesting a smaller, simpler ship than the Constitution. A problem with many kitbashes (including Jackill's) is that they slap together lots of full-sized Constitution or Miranda parts together making endless ships either larger than The Flagship, or whose mission profile is basically already met by pre-existing designs.
Nova Class -- the nacelles and front view need work, but that side is one cool looking ship. All the nooks and crannies make it look rather large too, whatever size it's actually supposed to be.
Winged Defender Class -- everyone's favorite. It and the Nova may be FASA's crowning achievements. That said, it looks like a fighter or otherwise much smaller ship than what the windows suggest. Romulans (and Klingons) like the bird motif, but this is seemingly more at home in the Buck Rogers Universe.
Chandley Class -- I'm a fan of designs that bring in new shapes (saucers, cylinders, spheres) and configurations (Constitution, Miranda, Constellation) to play with. I think the nacelle pylons here fan out too much, and the overall shape gives me a bit too much of a K'tinga stardrive section vibe, but I kinda like the Chandley Class.
Charger Class -- another collection of simple shapes and new configuration. Though alas it breaks the Roddenberry's Rules, I like the single nacelle here suggesting a smaller, simpler ship than the Constitution. A problem with many kitbashes (including Jackill's) is that they slap together lots of full-sized Constitution or Miranda parts together making endless ships either larger than The Flagship, or whose mission profile is basically already met by pre-existing designs.
Nova Class -- the nacelles and front view need work, but that side is one cool looking ship. All the nooks and crannies make it look rather large too, whatever size it's actually supposed to be.
Winged Defender Class -- everyone's favorite. It and the Nova may be FASA's crowning achievements. That said, it looks like a fighter or otherwise much smaller ship than what the windows suggest. Romulans (and Klingons) like the bird motif, but this is seemingly more at home in the Buck Rogers Universe.
I've long had an itch to build the Anton class, 'cause that's the only FASA ship that doesn't look totally ridiculous to me.
And hi - where have you been?
I've long had an itch to build the Anton class, 'cause that's the only FASA ship that doesn't look totally ridiculous to me.
A lot of them do, but I was always partial to the ones I listed above, plus the Baker Class.
Business as usual for me and everything is cool- I've just not been at the other place.
FASA had a license at the time so they wouldn't have been sued for making their own designs; they just weren't that great at it IMO.
I actually feel some of the Klingon and Romulan ships are much better than their Starfleet ones.Insofar as the scaling, one could argue that the components aren't necessarily intended to be on the same scale as one mounted on a Constitution or a Miranda; a nacelle might be smaller or larger but use a standardized design. A canonical example occurs in TNG with the type 7 shuttle, which features a nacelle design that's virtually identical to the Galaxy's. The runabout has a similar nacelle, though not quite the same design but with similar principles.
Other cool Jackill ships:
The Lancer Class Frigate looks almost like a Refit era version of your Minmus, Forbin.
Avro Arrow, have you seen the the Berglund Class Heavy Cruiser? It’s simililar to the Podesti Class Cruiser you like, and it has the virtues of fixing the torpedo launcher issue you mentioned (also stretching the launcher to include a second set facing aft) and lowering the nacelles enough so that the Bussard Collectors have clear line of sight past the saucer. I dunno about these designs though. They’re like a cross between the Constitution Class Heavy Cruiser and the Hellion Class Heavy Destroyer (the Enterprise and Voyager configurations) and, well, are such slightly different ships needed when you already have the others? ...whatever. The Federation's a massive interstellar nation of thousands of ships and mind-boggling construction abilities; it's a wonder they're not like snowflakes -- no two exactly alike and too many to count.
I like the reverse C-shape profile of the Explorer Class Recon Cruiser; it reminds me of the Minosian Drones from TNG's "Arsenal of Freedom." It's another cool configuration for the fleet. Only I wish he'd flared out the nacelles pylons more...from the front, the ship looks like it's dangling the Pawn Shop Symbol.
The Cheetah Class Fast Cruiser is great. You can easily see it being the light variant of the Constellation Class configuration.
The Scythe Class Escort configuration is similar to that of the Stormbringer Class Corvette; it's more of a stardrive section minus the additional neck and saucer sections. It makes sense for a smaller ship that wouldn’t need the extra space of a saucer or that would't be away for extended periods. I only wish Jackill didn't have such a fear of longer and more elegant nacelle pylons. The front view of this ship also sinks it for me.
I also want to mention the Trojan Class Troop Transport. It's got issues; the torpedo launcher would look better integrated to the front of the saucer like in the Lancer Class Frigate linked above, and though the side and front views look good, the top's a bit meh. But I love how the side of the troop carrying section thins out to the same shape as the saucer; there's a grace to it I really like.
The Lancer Class Frigate looks almost like a Refit era version of your Minmus, Forbin.
Avro Arrow, have you seen the the Berglund Class Heavy Cruiser? It’s simililar to the Podesti Class Cruiser you like, and it has the virtues of fixing the torpedo launcher issue you mentioned (also stretching the launcher to include a second set facing aft) and lowering the nacelles enough so that the Bussard Collectors have clear line of sight past the saucer. I dunno about these designs though. They’re like a cross between the Constitution Class Heavy Cruiser and the Hellion Class Heavy Destroyer (the Enterprise and Voyager configurations) and, well, are such slightly different ships needed when you already have the others? ...whatever. The Federation's a massive interstellar nation of thousands of ships and mind-boggling construction abilities; it's a wonder they're not like snowflakes -- no two exactly alike and too many to count.
I like the reverse C-shape profile of the Explorer Class Recon Cruiser; it reminds me of the Minosian Drones from TNG's "Arsenal of Freedom." It's another cool configuration for the fleet. Only I wish he'd flared out the nacelles pylons more...from the front, the ship looks like it's dangling the Pawn Shop Symbol.
The Cheetah Class Fast Cruiser is great. You can easily see it being the light variant of the Constellation Class configuration.
The Scythe Class Escort configuration is similar to that of the Stormbringer Class Corvette; it's more of a stardrive section minus the additional neck and saucer sections. It makes sense for a smaller ship that wouldn’t need the extra space of a saucer or that would't be away for extended periods. I only wish Jackill didn't have such a fear of longer and more elegant nacelle pylons. The front view of this ship also sinks it for me.
I also want to mention the Trojan Class Troop Transport. It's got issues; the torpedo launcher would look better integrated to the front of the saucer like in the Lancer Class Frigate linked above, and though the side and front views look good, the top's a bit meh. But I love how the side of the troop carrying section thins out to the same shape as the saucer; there's a grace to it I really like.
I don't recall seeing that before; thank you! Actually, not that they're identical, but this does kinda make me think of a movie-era version of the Probert-Ambassador.
But yes, you're right... how many heavy cruiser varieties does Starfleet really need to field in that one era? I also kinda like P.T. Riley's Seneschal Class Heavy Cruiser, but what would it give them that another Enterprise/Constitution-Refit wouldn't? (And it seems to have the opposite problem from the Podesti: no launchers at all!)
IIRC, this design was actually created by someone else; I'm guessing Jackill just got permission to do a data sheet for it. Although the sample images are too small to read any attribution. Ah, found it online: designed by Scott Bell.
(And I didn't realize pawn shops even had a symbol!
)
Our friend @cireskul built an absolutely perfect model of the Lancer using the old Ertl /537 Enterprise.
).
The Niffen Class tender is a little problematic for me. I like the design, but not for a tender.
I think saucers are overused in Federation designs. It's easy to slap them together in new designs as most are kit-bashes. But, if you think about the Enterprise being a heavy cruiser, a ship that needs lots of room for labs and troops and entertainment centers and to keep from feeling claustrophobic as you're away from home for possibly very long stretches, doesn't it follow that smaller ships and ships without as broad a mission envelope would either not have saucers or, maybe, have primary hulls of different shapes?
In a Federation of so many billions and of such construction capabilities, wouldn't it also be really easy for them to come up with new designs for ships rather than re-use quite so often kit bashed designs? Voyager isn't cobbled together from Galaxy parts, even if it is in the same esthetic vein. When it's a hero ship, or as CG has made it easy to, they come up with more original designs.
With the Niffen being specifically a tender, not an advanced design, I think the reuse of the Constitution's saucer and nacelle is too much. If it were a "Starfleet Special Forces" deployer or something, with all those shuttle bays, it'd work better for me.
But yeah, I always like it when ships either use different kinds of primary hulls, or none at all.
I think saucers are overused in Federation designs. It's easy to slap them together in new designs as most are kit-bashes. But, if you think about the Enterprise being a heavy cruiser, a ship that needs lots of room for labs and troops and entertainment centers and to keep from feeling claustrophobic as you're away from home for possibly very long stretches, doesn't it follow that smaller ships and ships without as broad a mission envelope would either not have saucers or, maybe, have primary hulls of different shapes?
In a Federation of so many billions and of such construction capabilities, wouldn't it also be really easy for them to come up with new designs for ships rather than re-use quite so often kit bashed designs? Voyager isn't cobbled together from Galaxy parts, even if it is in the same esthetic vein. When it's a hero ship, or as CG has made it easy to, they come up with more original designs.
With the Niffen being specifically a tender, not an advanced design, I think the reuse of the Constitution's saucer and nacelle is too much. If it were a "Starfleet Special Forces" deployer or something, with all those shuttle bays, it'd work better for me.
But yeah, I always like it when ships either use different kinds of primary hulls, or none at all.
Last edited:
How about Star Wars tank parts?
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_fitz.html
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_saipan.html
Or the stand from an Excelsior kit?
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_arminius.html
Or a Gundam?
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_tiburon.html
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_fitz.html
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_saipan.html
Or the stand from an Excelsior kit?
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_arminius.html
Or a Gundam?
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_tiburon.html
Federation Diplomatic Shuttle
Appeared in Star Trek #79, DC-V2
EDIT: DC-V2 came out in '96, and the shuttle was in Jackill's book in '92 or '93. Another Jackill fan!
Z-1 (Nova) Class XII Battleship
Appeared in Star Trek #34-36 DC-V1
Possibly my favorite FASA ship.
Warbird Moonhawk
Appeared in Star Trek #35-40, 53-55, DC-V2.
The design esthetic of TOS-Movie Era Romulan ships is a mystery. They could be anything.
USS Gallant
Appeared in Star Trek #1 DC Comics, Version 1 (henceforth DC-V1)
Loved this one as a kid. Though you can't see it from the sides, it has a semi-circular primary hull, a little like this.
Risa Express
Appeared in Star Trek: DS9 “The Maquis: Soldiers of Peace”
I strangely like this. Though I can hear the Type 7 Shuttle haters now...
Appeared in Star Trek #79, DC-V2
EDIT: DC-V2 came out in '96, and the shuttle was in Jackill's book in '92 or '93. Another Jackill fan!
Z-1 (Nova) Class XII Battleship
Appeared in Star Trek #34-36 DC-V1
Possibly my favorite FASA ship.
Warbird Moonhawk
Appeared in Star Trek #35-40, 53-55, DC-V2.
The design esthetic of TOS-Movie Era Romulan ships is a mystery. They could be anything.
USS Gallant
Appeared in Star Trek #1 DC Comics, Version 1 (henceforth DC-V1)
Loved this one as a kid. Though you can't see it from the sides, it has a semi-circular primary hull, a little like this.
Risa Express
Appeared in Star Trek: DS9 “The Maquis: Soldiers of Peace”
I strangely like this. Though I can hear the Type 7 Shuttle haters now...
Last edited:
Niven Class Light Attack Cruiser
Iverson Class Cruiser
I'm thinking Andorian engineers placed those nacelles!
Griff Class Escort Destroyer
I have some issues with this one (nacelles too close; the swivel torpedo launcher), but I like the differences at the top and bottom of the saucer, and the original nacelle design. The nacelles don’t quite work for me (I do like that they appear smaller than the Constitution’s), but points for originality. I like the overall shape of the ship’s profile too. The neck and front of the nacelle are a bit incongruously fuller than the more elegant *Heavy Cruiser* Constitution’s, but I like to imagine this being a design going into the fuller-bodied Excelsior Era.
Phantom Class Super Scout
Roddenberry or Probert (or I) would have a field day with the line-of-sight issues of the nacelles, but points for originality. Maybe if they were stacked on top of each other but facing each other?!
Brownfield Class Light Scout
I like the semi-circlular primary hull for this Light Scout. I wish it started a little more at the center of the saucer, as it looks like it's about to tip over now. And it might be a little aggressive, but I wonder if that top view would look good with the saucer being cut with little teeth or fins at the ends jutted aft. Maybe it would present less aggressive if the primary hull were crescents-like, making the aft-facing tips the ends of curves rather than sharp angled teeth.
Iverson Class Cruiser
I'm thinking Andorian engineers placed those nacelles!
Griff Class Escort Destroyer
I have some issues with this one (nacelles too close; the swivel torpedo launcher), but I like the differences at the top and bottom of the saucer, and the original nacelle design. The nacelles don’t quite work for me (I do like that they appear smaller than the Constitution’s), but points for originality. I like the overall shape of the ship’s profile too. The neck and front of the nacelle are a bit incongruously fuller than the more elegant *Heavy Cruiser* Constitution’s, but I like to imagine this being a design going into the fuller-bodied Excelsior Era.
Phantom Class Super Scout
Roddenberry or Probert (or I) would have a field day with the line-of-sight issues of the nacelles, but points for originality. Maybe if they were stacked on top of each other but facing each other?!
Brownfield Class Light Scout
I like the semi-circlular primary hull for this Light Scout. I wish it started a little more at the center of the saucer, as it looks like it's about to tip over now. And it might be a little aggressive, but I wonder if that top view would look good with the saucer being cut with little teeth or fins at the ends jutted aft. Maybe it would present less aggressive if the primary hull were crescents-like, making the aft-facing tips the ends of curves rather than sharp angled teeth.
That Iverson class is essentially a FASA Loknar Refit. I like it!
