I've really grown to genuinely love "The Search for Spock."
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
I rather felt it was his way of having an advantage and keeping Kirk off balance. Kirk immediately starts off by throwing his rank and name out there but in response Kruge just tells him nothing.
If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
I think Kruge is a far more heroic and decent man than Chang. He's not a traitor for instance and his actions are motivated by the awareness Genesis IS a weapon. When he talks about it being used as a weapon of conquest, some fans dismissed it but a human DID try to hijack it as a weapon of genocide just a few weeks prior. People like Cartwright WOULD turn it against the Klingons if they felt so inclined.
He's also a very humanized villain. Kruge mourns the death of his crew due to Kirk killing them via treachery (Kruge forgot that the laws of war don't apply when he's acting unilaterally in enemy territory without the permission of his government). Kruge feels remorse killing his spy (who may have been his lover or at least his friend). He also executes his gunner who commits a war crime/act of war against the Federation.
Chang is getting off on all of the battles he's involved in from beginning to end.
^
And they killed his dog, man... That shit just sent him right over the edge,
"Emergency power!!!...To the thrusters!!!!"
I like how Chris Lloyd does the random dramatic pauses like our boy Mr. Shatner. The above line and also:
"Even as our emissaries negotiate for peace (pause) with the Federation, we will act for the preservation of our race."
For years, I thought they were going to work with the Federation to preserve the Klingon race, as in "With the Federation we will act for the preservation of our race." but that made no sense in context. However, remove the pause and boom, there it is.
And they killed his dog, man... That shit just sent him right over the edge,
"Emergency power!!!...To the thrusters!!!!"
I like how Chris Lloyd does the random dramatic pauses like our boy Mr. Shatner. The above line and also:
"Even as our emissaries negotiate for peace (pause) with the Federation, we will act for the preservation of our race."
For years, I thought they were going to work with the Federation to preserve the Klingon race, as in "With the Federation we will act for the preservation of our race." but that made no sense in context. However, remove the pause and boom, there it is.
From Chang's perspective, Gorkon and those who supported his approach to diplomacy with the Federation were the traitors. Arguably, based on past Klingon encounters, Chang's even right, but what he fails to realize is that the Kilingon way as it has been is no longer sustainable.
Do we think Kor/Kang/Koloth necessarily would have supported Gorkon's changes?
It's doubtful to me that Chang was sanguine about the Genesis Device either, but he was probably overruled by Gorkon.
We have no idea what Khan would have used Genesis for. Saying he would have used it for genocide, to me, is pretty far-fetched.
Do we think Kor/Kang/Koloth necessarily would have supported Gorkon's changes?
It's doubtful to me that Chang was sanguine about the Genesis Device either, but he was probably overruled by Gorkon.
We have no idea what Khan would have used Genesis for. Saying he would have used it for genocide, to me, is pretty far-fetched.
I had the same reaction, in that I think Khan using it for genocide is an assumption. He might have, but in his insanity he really only had one goal, to kill Kirk, or to at least make him suffer. If he became more balanced, i.e., as balanced as a megalomaniac superman can get, he might have used it as a threat to get planets to submit to his rule, but I can't see that threat lasting long. Star Fleet would have marshaled its forces and forced his hand, and smart only goes so far against that kind of resistance.
It's pretty explicit Khan wants it as a weapon. While genocide is a big thing to charge him with, it is the space equivalent of a nuclear weapon that leaves beautiful habitable planets in its wake. Khan with nuclear weapons probably won't use them--but he could and the threat of them is its own reward. He's also a great deal crazier than he was when warlord of Earth.
With Kruge, I get the impression he's a Klingon intelligence officer that is finding himself in a surprisingly bad series of events. Kruge doesn't want to start a shooting war with the Federation, unlike Chang, but also is trying to get intelligence on what he perceives as a destabilizing super-weapon. A series of unfortunate events makes him cross the Rubicon early on as unless he can provide Genesis to the Council, he is going to be considered a rogue and a terrorist. He also loses the people following him that he seems to blame himself for.
Linkara did a pretty interesting analysis of him in his review of the comic version.
18:20 is when he discusses Kruge and his girlfriend.
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One of the things people point out is that there's no narrative need for Kirk to go to Genesis with Bones. While the reordering of the scenes to remove the discovery of Spock's coffin made it cloudy, Sarek actually obliquely says it was expected for Kirk to being Spock and his Katra to Vulcan.
SAREK: Why did you leave him on Genesis? Spock trusted you -- and you denied him his future!
(and)
Then you must know that you should have come with him to Vulcan.
(and)
Because he asked you to! He entrusted you with his very essence -- with everything
was not of the body. He asked you to bring him to us -- and to bring that which he gave you: his Katra. His living spirit.
He refers to Spock and the Katra as two seperate things to bring to Vulcan. Since it's vague, it's easy to miss and understandble to assume someone dropped the ball, but if we assume Kirk owuld find out about the Grissom's discovery between scenes, it still works.
SAREK: Why did you leave him on Genesis? Spock trusted you -- and you denied him his future!
(and)
Then you must know that you should have come with him to Vulcan.
(and)
Because he asked you to! He entrusted you with his very essence -- with everything
was not of the body. He asked you to bring him to us -- and to bring that which he gave you: his Katra. His living spirit.
He refers to Spock and the Katra as two seperate things to bring to Vulcan. Since it's vague, it's easy to miss and understandble to assume someone dropped the ball, but if we assume Kirk owuld find out about the Grissom's discovery between scenes, it still works.
Kor probably because he was at least willing to negotiate once he understood the circumstances. Kang was always a pragmatist so maybe not. Koloth probably not.
Kor: he loved a good battle, but I could see him grudgingly accepting peace.
Kang: absolutely. He was proud the Klingon’s honored the treaty “to the letter” (even if that claim was somewhat dubious). Kang was in no way unreasonable.
Koloth: he was a weasel and an administrator. He had zero bite. He’d totally fold. Hell, he scampered away when a tribble screamed at him. Korax, however, was a different story and probably would have rather died fighting.
Become king. King BOB!
I agree, he was ruthless but also charismatic, and amusing at times too. I love some of the subtle comedy he brought to the role.
You need to watch "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest"... He's in that one too.
