It's kind of like Goldfinger. It was a great Bond movie that was the template for a lot of terrible Bond movies. It did move the needle on "This is what happens in a Star Trek movie." More so than TWOK, I think.
I've really grown to genuinely love "The Search for Spock."
- Thread starter Amasov
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This is a controversial opinion, but I rate Nimoy as the worst of the Trek film directors. Yes, even worse than Baird. (Baird may not be good at getting a performance out of the actors, but his camera work is cinematic.) His direction is flat and pedestrian, and the film looks cheap because it's all studio-bound. Nimoy does better on Star Trek IV, as he has more experience behind the camera, and he benefits from the location shooting. But on III, there's little to commend in Nimoy's direction.
I crushed harder on Curtis' Saavik than Alley's. Something about those eyebrows...
Do tell.
This is a controversial opinion, but I rate Nimoy as the worst of the Trek film directors. Yes, even worse than Baird. (Baird may not be good at getting a performance out of the actors, but his camera work is cinematic.) His direction is flat and pedestrian, and the film looks cheap because it's all studio-bound. Nimoy does better on Star Trek IV, as he has more experience behind the camera, and he benefits from the location shooting. But on III, there's little to commend in Nimoy's direction.
I crushed harder on Curtis' Saavik than Alley's. Something about those eyebrows...
Do tell.
Not a controversial opinion to me, I completely agree on the lighting and direction of TSFS. Compare how much better those same sets looked in TMP - they looked like a realistic, functioning vessel in an epic movie. TSFS looks so cheap in comparison.
I will always remember how much I loved this movie on opening night, a love that has never diminished. It remains my all time favorite Star Trek movie even with all of the flaws. Harve Bennett said it was the easiest film he ever wrote, but it could have used a polish or two. Even with the plot holes and some weird editorial decisions, the entire film clicked for me. The performances, pacing and - oh my God - music were all spot on. It was incredibly character based and was the first film to show these people had truly become a family.
I give Nimoy a break because he was a first-time feature director and he focused on his players rather than his shots. And even though a couple of the sets seemed slightly cheap, it was the early 80's and not even the Indiana Jones movies were always convincing (the screaming Nazi in the falling tank and the Indy and Henry in Nazi plane scenes during Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade were worse than anything on Star Trek III). Shatner took the lead with gusto and delivered his finest movie performance as Kirk. I didn't mind Robin Curtis at all and at least she looked Vulcan. Having Kirk slug it out with the main baddie was a real relief after the "threats of the TV" between Kirk and Khan. I left this film with my spirits lifted so high, very much how I felt after seeing The Emprie Strikes Back for the first time. I couldn't wait to see it again.
Still, there's a part of me who really would have liked to see where the films were going to go if Spock stayed dead. Saavik and David were the "new blood" intended to stick around. Carol Marcus would have been wonderful to see again. Instead, at the end of TVH we got a return to the status quo. I missed Admiral Kirk and it never felt right to have him go back to Captain.
I give Nimoy a break because he was a first-time feature director and he focused on his players rather than his shots. And even though a couple of the sets seemed slightly cheap, it was the early 80's and not even the Indiana Jones movies were always convincing (the screaming Nazi in the falling tank and the Indy and Henry in Nazi plane scenes during Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade were worse than anything on Star Trek III). Shatner took the lead with gusto and delivered his finest movie performance as Kirk. I didn't mind Robin Curtis at all and at least she looked Vulcan. Having Kirk slug it out with the main baddie was a real relief after the "threats of the TV" between Kirk and Khan. I left this film with my spirits lifted so high, very much how I felt after seeing The Emprie Strikes Back for the first time. I couldn't wait to see it again.
Still, there's a part of me who really would have liked to see where the films were going to go if Spock stayed dead. Saavik and David were the "new blood" intended to stick around. Carol Marcus would have been wonderful to see again. Instead, at the end of TVH we got a return to the status quo. I missed Admiral Kirk and it never felt right to have him go back to Captain.
There is some footage floating around (it might be a publicity reel?) that shows the undubbed footage. It's not the same performance at all. She mispronounces a lot of the names and places. I'm told that in the middle of filming that they literally got her acting lessons. Good for her for being able to take criticism and good for everyone else for bringing her across the finish line.Do tell.
It's truly amazing all the things that go into a finished film.
That's interesting. I have heard over the years that Nimoy did not care for Alley's performance, and knowing that about Alley having to redub her lines may explain why he went straight to recasting the role of Saavik when she and her agent hoped to negotiate. The story that Alley was looking for "Shatner money" for Star Trek III always seemed suspect to me, and she's said a number of times over the years that wasn't true.
And yet her undubbed performance is better than Estaban.
I saw it on opening night (I saw every film through Nemesis on opening night, and Nemesis killed that urge for me). I recall enjoying it, thinking it was not as good as TWOK but entertaining. I was very surprised when it was over and the three people I went with were all saying that they were disappointed.
And yet her undubbed performance is better than Estaban.
I feel like Philip Allen was going for a Shatneresque 60s laid back vibe, but as Estaban he came across either as chummy or milquetoast. I might even use "smarmy." The character is better rendered in Vonda McIntyre's novelization, imho, a benefit of being able to start the movie's story eighty pages into the novel. There, he's a man with specific orders on a vital mission who finds himself well out of his depth through no fault of his own. He was placed in a bad situation by Starfleet.
As Allyn noted, I think Esteban was hamstrung by the fact that he was probably under stricter-than-usual orders from Starfleet to handle the situation "by the book", but then found himself facing exceptional circumstances. He comes off as a schmuck to us because we're used to seeing Kirk et al. in action, who probably do think faster-on-their-feet, but we rarely if ever saw Kirk in a situation where he'd been given very little room to maneuver with regards to interpreting orders.
Think of it this way: I don't think I'm exceptionally good at my job, but I have two coworkers who regularly seem to have problems. Does that mean that I actually am exceptionally good at my job, or just that they're bad at it, or both? Am I the James Kirk of my team, or am I Esteban and I just don't know it because my coworkers are Styles and Random Incompetent Redshirt?
That said, the way the BoP situation as handled was...unfortunate. I wonder whether, if TSFS was to be remade, they would at least let Grissom put up a token fight...or just attempt to run away...before being destroyed.
Think of it this way: I don't think I'm exceptionally good at my job, but I have two coworkers who regularly seem to have problems. Does that mean that I actually am exceptionally good at my job, or just that they're bad at it, or both? Am I the James Kirk of my team, or am I Esteban and I just don't know it because my coworkers are Styles and Random Incompetent Redshirt?
That said, the way the BoP situation as handled was...unfortunate. I wonder whether, if TSFS was to be remade, they would at least let Grissom put up a token fight...or just attempt to run away...before being destroyed.
I would have been fine with the BoP situation if they changed his dialog a little: "Shields up, evasive action!" Not "stand by for evasive." The BoP could have still fired off a shot before the shields went up. The "oh my God" was great because it looks like the first time he's seen a BoP and knows how powerful they are. Indeed, the single shot vaporized the Grissom.
The sad truth of Estaban and the Grissom is that Starfleet sent the wrong ship on the wrong mission, perhaps out of the naive belief that a lightly armed science vessel sufficed, not realizing that every major power within shouting distance of the former Mutara Nebula would be interested. I'd compare the situation to Niven and Pournelle's The Mote in God's Eye, like the MacArthur there, on the first contact mission to Mote Prime, the Grissom needed heavily armed back-up while she did her job.
TWOK's premise is that there's a lack of ships in the region of Regula, the reason Enterprise had to be sent there in the first place (and the fleet was still spread thin by IV) . With cold wars on at least two border regions, it might have been Grissom was about the best they could do, right then.
True, and the novelization, if I recall, raises that very point. Enterprise limped back to Regula, Grissom arrived to relieve her because she was close, and the Enterprise went home expecting to go back after repairs. It's the old "only ship in the quadrant" chestnut.
Thinking along those lines, I wonder if Excelsior was space-worthy enough to have departed for Genesis to be back-up before Enterprise even arrived back at Earth, not unlike the Enterprise herself in The Motion Picture.
on a seperate note.. I really wish they had not named her Grissom.True, and the novelization, if I recall, raises that very point. Enterprise limped back to Regula, Grissom arrived to relieve her because she was close, and the Enterprise went home expecting to go back after repairs. It's the old "only ship in the quadrant" chestnut.
Thinking along those lines, I wonder if Excelsior was space-worthy enough to have departed for Genesis to be back-up before Enterprise even arrived back at Earth, not unlike the Enterprise herself in The Motion Picture.
I was too young to appreciate the dark irony of the loss of a ship named after poor Gus Grissom. After the near drowning, the false accusation, the fiery death, he kind of deserved better.
It also started the Trek trend of naming ships after astronauts and cosmonauts and then killing them.
USS Grissom (Planet Genesis attack)
USS Gagarin (First Klingon War)
USS Glenn (First Klingon War/ Experiment Failure)
USS Armstrong (Kelvin Verse. Romulan Attack on Vulcan)
I'm not sure if I'd seen The Right Stuff before or after I saw Star Trek III, and I was young either way when both came out, so I may not have been aware at the time that the Grissom was named after Gus Grissom.
