I've Got Blisters On Me Fingers!

[thestrangequark]

FRUSTRATION!

I know it has been awhile, but after a summer of traveling not conducive to toting a guitar, and a fall that was just too darn stressful, I've picked up my good ole' stringed friend and started learning some new songs.

There is a song I have wanted to learn, and after two days of playing I've got the chords and rhythm perfectly. The frustration comes in when I try to sing. I've not had any trouble singing while playing any of the other (three) songs I've learned, but there is something about this rhythm that I just can't strum while I'm singing. I play the first measure, and as soon as the words come in I lose it. Any recommendations? Or is it just like when you're a kid and you try to rub your belly and pat your head at the same time: you just can't do it until you can do it, and in the meantime you have to be patient and keep trying?

 

[M'Sharak]

Or is it just like when you're a kid and you try to rub your belly and pat your head at the same time: you just can't do it until you can do it, and in the meantime you have to be patient and keep trying?

Mostly like this, I'm afraid. You could try starting out by working the voice together with a simplified version of the strumming pattern first and then adding the rest back in once you've got that solid, but generally, there's no real substitute for woodshedding the difficult bits until they become less difficult for you. Breaking the whole down into sections you can work on one at a time might also be a way to approach it. In the meantime, however, yes, it's going to be frustrating, but with persistence you'll eventually get there.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Or is it just like when you're a kid and you try to rub your belly and pat your head at the same time: you just can't do it until you can do it, and in the meantime you have to be patient and keep trying?

Mostly like this, I'm afraid. You could try starting out by working the voice together with a simplified version of the strumming pattern first and then adding the rest back in once you've got that solid, but generally, there's no real substitute for woodshedding the difficult bits until they become less difficult for you. Breaking the whole down into sections you can work on one at a time might also be a way to approach it. In the meantime, however, yes, it's going to be frustrating, but with persistence you'll eventually get there.

This is true, however a detailed rhythmic analysis can get you there faster. I had the same problem when first trying to sing while playing bass to "Drive My Car". The problem was that little pickup note of that bassline just before beat 3 and how that relates to vocal's rhythm.
So if you can break it down to 8th notes, or 16ths if necessary, you can zero in on the tough spot better.

 

[iguana_tonante]

While my guitar playing skills are embarrassing in themselves, I am completely unable to sing while playing. It's like my jaw is locked into a mask of utmost concentration and cannot move at all. I have a theory my brain simply can't believe I am actually playing an instrument and thinks the sounds are somehow coming from my throat, and so it shuts down the language centres. Which is weird, since I can actually sing decently, but as soon as I am playing, I am unable to make a sound.

 

[CaptainStoner]

While my guitar playing skills are embarrassing in themselves, I am completely unable to sing while playing. It's like my jaw is locked into a mask of utmost concentration and cannot move at all. I have a theory my brain simply can't believe I am actually playing an instrument and thinks the sounds are somehow coming from my throat, and so it shuts down the language centres. Which is weird, since I can actually sing decently, but as soon as I am playing, I am unable to make a sound.

Wow that's an interesting split, but I'm sure it can be overcome. You might try just singing long notes with little variation, like a background harmony, to get it to start opening up.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

The first instrument I ever learned was the transverse or "sweet-potato" Ocarina, a closed-chamber wind instrument. Unfortunately, it was plastic and in the key of C... not a good combination. Fortunately, it was very easy to learn and very cheap compared to the tsugaru shamisen, which is what I initially wanted to learn. It came with a scale chart that was rather easy to understand, for being in Taiwanese.

The next instrument I proceeded to dominate was the panpipes. Much better quality, being made out of actual wood this time. Also much simpler, requiring more of a basic knowledge of what pipe made which sound when blown at such and such angle, instead of complex finger combinations.

 

[thestrangequark]

Or is it just like when you're a kid and you try to rub your belly and pat your head at the same time: you just can't do it until you can do it, and in the meantime you have to be patient and keep trying?

Mostly like this, I'm afraid. You could try starting out by working the voice together with a simplified version of the strumming pattern first and then adding the rest back in once you've got that solid, but generally, there's no real substitute for woodshedding the difficult bits until they become less difficult for you. Breaking the whole down into sections you can work on one at a time might also be a way to approach it. In the meantime, however, yes, it's going to be frustrating, but with persistence you'll eventually get there.

This is true, however a detailed rhythmic analysis can get you there faster. I had the same problem when first trying to sing while playing bass to "Drive My Car". The problem was that little pickup note of that bassline just before beat 3 and how that relates to vocal's rhythm.
So if you can break it down to 8th notes, or 16ths if necessary, you can zero in on the tough spot better.

Thanks to both of you for the advice. Before I posted here I had already tried simplifying the strumming so that I could sing along, which I could do -- but of course, as I switched back to the true pattern and tried to sing, I lost it.

Today I did a little bit each of what you two suggested: I started with the simplified version and then added little chunks at a time, and while I was able to succeed in getting about half the strumming pattern out while singing, I still couldn't make it all the way. Then, I tried writing it out. I can read and write music, but am too lazy to do that, so I just made up a shorthand of my own to signify up and down stums (like I do up and down bows on the cello) and wrote them out in a pattern of long and short notes. It's amazing! I can do it now! I still sound a bit clumsy but I think with another two or three days of practice I'll get there. Thanks, guys!

 

[Capn Flukie]

Hey hey, who knew tsq could get even cooler? Congrats on picking up the guitar, don't fret about it, I knew you had pluck.

I've been playing since I was about 19, you do the math.

Here's a little of my playing, including the screw-up; Stockade Stroll

... and the horrifying TrekBBS Song.

 

[TheBrew]

Wow, I had forgotten this thread. Even forgot some of the songs that I had recorded, so now I will have to figure out what the hell I did in the first place.

I got a Strat last summer and paired it up with a tube amp, so I've gone electric. It is amazing what a difference a year makes as I feel that I am much better (at least at rocking) than I was a year ago. Learning some blues scales really helped.

As for singing and playing, I can mostly do it but there are some songs that just mess with my head. I can't play and sing Nirvana's "Come As You Are" to save my life.

 

[Major Chord]

Glad you've figured it out tsq! I was going to suggest something that was mentioned above: breaking down both the guitar part, and the vocals into microbeats, like 8ths, 16ths, etc, so that you know when exactly you're to hit each note in each part.

 

[ITL]

Practising the rhythm part until you can play it without thinking is always a good idea. Then, try it with vocals.

Easier said than done, I know...

 

[J.T.B.]

Another trick that helps some is to record yourself playing the guitar part and sing with it and record yourself singing and play along with that. You may get a little better feel of how the vocals go with the rhythm vice versa.

As you practice, one day you will notice that the singing is no longer a big issue, and even difficult songs just take a couple of run-throughs. After 20+ years I still have trouble singing with some picking rhythms at first, which I partly attribute to being a lefty playing right handed. But it all comes together eventually.

Good luck and calluses,
Justin

 

[iguana_tonante]

While my guitar playing skills are embarrassing in themselves, I am completely unable to sing while playing.

Wow that's an interesting split, but I'm sure it can be overcome. You might try just singing long notes with little variation, like a background harmony, to get it to start opening up.

Well, given that I shake off the dust from the old girl once, maybe twice a year, I don't think I will be able to do that in the near future. But if I ever get bitten by the musical spider again, I will make sure to follow everybody's advice.

 

[LitmusDragon]

As for singing and playing, I can mostly do it but there are some songs that just mess with my head. I can't play and sing Nirvana's "Come As You Are" to save my life.

Kurt seemed to have the same problem. There's a lot of horrible sounding live versions of Come As You Are floating around on bootlegs. Once they added a second guitarist it was better.

This illustrates an important point- some songs are a lot easier to play and sing than others. Some songs weren't even played and sung at the same time by the original artist. Hooray multi-track studios.

 

[Nowhere Man]

Run a lighter flame against your finger tips back and forth for 30 minutes a day. That will build up your caluses. Start of acoustic and then electric and start with light strings. Change your strings once a month.

 

[thestrangequark]

Run a lighter flame against your finger tips back and forth for 30 minutes a day. That will build up your caluses. Start of acoustic and then electric and start with light strings. Change your strings once a month.

Thanks for the advice, but I believe I'm too timid to try the lighter. I have no idea the difference between light and heavy strings -- is that like steel versus nylon? Does it have to do with the strength needed to press down the sting? My hand is strong (I've played cello since the age of 10), so if that's the issue I'm not too worried about it. Do I really need to change the strings once a month? It just seems so excessive. I think I've changed my cello strings only 3 or 4 times in the 15 years I've owned it!

I may someday want to try electric, but I'm really not all that interested in it at this point.

 

[DeafPoet]

Run a lighter flame against your finger tips back and forth for 30 minutes a day. That will build up your caluses. Start of acoustic and then electric and start with light strings. Change your strings once a month.

Thanks for the advice, but I believe I'm too timid to try the lighter. I have no idea the difference between light and heavy strings -- is that like steel versus nylon? Does it have to do with the strength needed to press down the sting? My hand is strong (I've played cello since the age of 10), so if that's the issue I'm not too worried about it. Do I really need to change the strings once a month? It just seems so excessive. I think I've changed my cello strings only 3 or 4 times in the 15 years I've owned

He's talking about the string gage, or thickness. For a steel string acoustic, a light gage is around .012 (which is the thickness of the high E string). By comparison, that would be relatively heavy for an electric.

With regards to frequency, once a month is a little excessive unless you're playing like 25 hours a week. I've been there and it's very necessary in that case. If your practice regimen is a little more sane, 3-6 months is probably better.

 

[TheBrew]

That reminds me, I need to change my strings. Thanks!

 

[thestrangequark]

Here is the song that I was talking about. Bear in mind that, although I first picked up the guitar almost a year ago, I took a 10 month hiatus, so have really been playing for only a couple of months!

It's still not perfect by any means, the bridge gives me especial trouble, but I've learned a lot! Oh, and if you know where this song comes from you are just as big a dork as I am, so no teasing!!!

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWZCus_VBCo[/yt]

Now I'm trying to learn "Across the Universe," but in just the opening riff, I've already run into some trouble: my hands are just too small to play the chord the way the video tutorial is showing me! They want my fingers 1 and 2 on the 1st fret, 3 on the 3rd, and my pinky on the 4th. Now, my left hand is strong and can really stretch thanks to years on the cello, but I just can't reach in this configuration. Any advice?

 

[captcalhoun]

two things:

better than i could ever do.

can't hear you singing....