Issues with Voyager

[Tyberius]

After reading about Fair Haven and Spirit Folk, I decided to skip them when I did my Voyager marathon in April and May, so in my memory Janeway never had an affair with a hologram.

Be thankful. They are quite painful to watch.

I think they were both fine episodes.

Janeway needed some character assassination at that point; it causes one to grow. It also explores how a character in her position, with her position, would deal with her libido. Did she attempt to "fix" Mark too? She certainly does appear to try to "fix" people, in general.

Spirit Folk was also enjoyable. The holodeck had been running non-stop for, what, a month or more? Something was bound to happen. I thought the townsfolk's descriptions of the crew were funny and insightful. After the peripeteia I became a little frustrated, mainly because I thought the whole episode could have been a character study and didn't need the great conflict. It could have been kept light and comedic throughout.

YMMV

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Janeway needed some character assassination at that point; it causes one to grow. It also explores how a character in her position, with her position, would deal with her libido. Did she attempt to "fix" Mark too? She certainly does appear to try to "fix" people, in general.

YMMV

Janeway had quite a bit of 'character assassination' throughout the entire series. The fact that she kept contradicting herself, her bizarre judgment calls, her almost-but-not-quite's with the aliens of the week (unlike Kirk who got the oh-yes-we-dids). They were all set ups that kept her knocking her character down.

These two episodes were not attempts to broaden anything. If you really wanted a study on how an isolated Federation captain handled not being able to have sex for an extremely long period of time, then do it. Don't act like it's all fun and games because it's not.

Her mental state could have been a constant arc in the series as she progressed more and more toward need for physical contact ultimately leading up to her resorting to going with a hologram. We could have seen her struggle with attraction to people on the ship. We could have seen her looking for outs. We could have seen how her other friendships deteriorated (or not depending) because of her lack of closeness with anyone on the ship or otherwise. These thoughts make logical sense, after all.

Instead, we get a couple of holodeck episodes where the joke on the ship about the captain's fun toy turns into a nightmare when there is a... *gasp* ...malfunction on the holodeck.

We don't even see a real struggle with whether or not she should be becoming emotionally attached to it. We see a conversation she has with another hologram. That's perfect. Ask advice about whether or not to kill this guy from the homicidal maniac. We should have seen her speaking with a living being about the situation as well. There would have been character growth PLUS growth between two characters.

When did we see her sex toy after that second episode anyway? Oh wait... we didn't...

 

[JanineSal]

Janeway had quite a bit of 'character assassination' throughout the entire series. The fact that she kept contradicting herself, her bizarre judgment calls, her almost-but-not-quite's with the aliens of the week (unlike Kirk who got the oh-yes-we-dids). They were all set ups that kept her knocking her character down.

What are you saying here? She was acting like a woman? In fact, I find your post to be nothing more than a joke in which you ended up engaging in needless nitpicking and bashing.


All you have done was described Janeway during S5, when she was acting erractically, following her depression. I doubt that she didn't get out of it, until her encounter with the Equinox crew.

As for VOY, for me it was a solid and entertaining Trek show with flaws - which is how I view TNG and DS9 as well. As for the other two Trek shows, they had their moments, but were not on par as TNG, DS9 and VOY.

 

[DanCPA]

See, now, I hate this thought process (from the writers). There is no reason that Janeway couldn't have had a relationship, and I think a romance with an alien really makes the most sense.

The problem with that is that eventually she will become his superior and protector as well...

(Though I must admit I was always a fan of J/7. ) The alien would have come on ship, and there could have been some great story telling right there.

Maybe so... but I have 2 main problems with that... 1) She would have to know the alien long enough for the man to want to go on Voyager and travel to Earth with her... I don't know too many people that would be willing to throw their lives away for someone they knew only a couple of days... And the kind of person that would do that would likely be a complete loser and not be the kind of man Janeway wanted.
2) The man would eventually start doing a job on Voyager and become her crew, so you have the same problem.

I think the writers did a very poor job here where they could have used a unique situation to give a captain some super complexity and depth unlike any in the past. Instead, she turned into a super nun with a toy fetish.

No, I like how they did Janeway in this regard... Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.
And after that, I would not have enjoyed seeing her making out on a weekly basis with the alien of the week... She got her relationship in Workforce... Maybe if he would have gone with her, but even then, you go back to the fact that eventually he becomes her crewman.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Janeway had quite a bit of 'character assassination' throughout the entire series. The fact that she kept contradicting herself, her bizarre judgment calls, her almost-but-not-quite's with the aliens of the week (unlike Kirk who got the oh-yes-we-dids). They were all set ups that kept her knocking her character down.

What are you saying here? She was acting like a woman? In fact, I find your post to be nothing more than a joke in which you ended up engaging in needless nitpicking and bashing.


All you have done was described Janeway during S5, when she was acting erractically, following her depression. I doubt that she didn't get out of it, until her encounter with the Equinox crew.

As for VOY, for me it was a solid and entertaining Trek show with flaws - which is how I view TNG and DS9 as well. As for the other two Trek shows, they had their moments, but were not on par as TNG, DS9 and VOY.

No, I'm not saying Janeway was 'acting like a woman'. I'm a woman myself. I would never say anything like that.

But, Janeway did contradict herself a lot. She hates time travel but uses it in the finale to her own advantage. She wants to uphold the Prime Directive but gives Federation technology to the Hirogen. She wants to not interfer with the natural course (a la the PD) but destroys the array to prevent the Kazon from taking it over. (If they hadn't been there, the natural course would have been for the Kazon to take over the array.)

These are all inconsistencies in the writing that caused her character to be a bit erratic. Even though that is the case, it's all still the character, and that makes her assassinate herself.

In addition, there is no indication in the cannon at all that she fell into a depression even though we can all see where that would easily happen. So, saying her actions are based on that may be a fallacy.

Of course I'm nitpicking. That's what you do when you discuss things that bother you about a show that's been off the air waves for years.

 

[kimc]

Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.

That made sense to me too assuming she loved him enough to agree to marry him.

Once that was over though they should have resolved the J/C ust one way or the other.

 

[DanCPA]

Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.

That made sense to me too assuming she loved him enough to agree to marry him.

Once that was over though they should have resolved the J/C ust one way or the other.

I would have liked for the Captain and Chakotay to have developed a relationship (over at least half of a season)... and for that relationship to have caused a problem with ship functions and procedures... and with that they realize that despite the fact that they were meant to be together, they can't be.

 

[kimc]

Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.

That made sense to me too assuming she loved him enough to agree to marry him.

Once that was over though they should have resolved the J/C ust one way or the other.

I would have liked for the Captain and Chakotay to have developed a relationship (over at least half of a season)... and for that relationship to have caused a problem with ship functions and procedures... and with that they realize that despite the fact that they were meant to be together, they can't be.

That would have been one way to do it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.

Frankly, I like how Harry held out for Libby 'til the Delaney sisters wanted a double date in the second episode.

In the middle, when all we knew of Seven of Nine was that picture of a shiny silver cyberwoman, I was told that she was going to hook up with Tuvok. Forgot about the wife entirely.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Frankly, I like how she held out for Mark 'til she found out he had moved on.

That made sense to me too assuming she loved him enough to agree to marry him.

Once that was over though they should have resolved the J/C ust one way or the other.

I would have liked for the Captain and Chakotay to have developed a relationship (over at least half of a season)... and for that relationship to have caused a problem with ship functions and procedures... and with that they realize that despite the fact that they were meant to be together, they can't be.

This I could have gone with.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Like Picard and that redhead who was pretending she wasn't Australian?

Unless you literally mean that their love was as toxic as Neelix's cheese?

 

[DanCPA]

Like Picard and that redhead who was pretending she wasn't Australian?

Sort of... but in that case, it didn't interfere with ship functions. Riker feels uncomfortable with it, but she was just doing her job as a department head

Unless you literally mean that their love was as toxic as Neelix's cheese?

Nothing is that toxic!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

This leads me to ask...

How can we forget the epic words spoken by Torres?

"Get the cheese to sickbay!"

How did Dawson keep a straight face?

 

[DanCPA]

How did Dawson keep a straight face?

Well, she was under the klingon turtle shell... maybe that helped.

But the lady should have been nominated for an emmy!

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Yes... I was always impressed with the writers. I really enjoyed these classic lines from Janeway...

All we have to do now is out think a think tank. - Think Tank
Assemble the staff. We're going to have to find a way to out smart a smart bomb. - Warhead
We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi - False Profits

 

[DanCPA]

at least the writers figured out how to out-write the writers

 

[jimbtnp2]

Yes... I was always impressed with the writers. I really enjoyed these classic lines from Janeway...

All we have to do now is out think a think tank. - Think Tank
Assemble the staff. We're going to have to find a way to out smart a smart bomb. - Warhead
We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi - False Profits

can we create a time amchine and exercise this show from existence?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Yes... I was always impressed with the writers. I really enjoyed these classic lines from Janeway...

All we have to do now is out think a think tank. - Think Tank
Assemble the staff. We're going to have to find a way to out smart a smart bomb. - Warhead
We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi - False Profits

can we create a time amchine and exercise this show from existence?

No... despite my issues, I'm simply in love with Janeway. The thought of her not being around makes me cry inside.

 

[Anwar]

Yes... I was always impressed with the writers. I really enjoyed these classic lines from Janeway...

All we have to do now is out think a think tank. - Think Tank
Assemble the staff. We're going to have to find a way to out smart a smart bomb. - Warhead
We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi - False Profits

can we create a time amchine and exercise this show from existence?

No, because unlike you we don't all have some psychotic hatred of a show just because it wasn't perfect.

 

[jimbtnp2]

Yes... I was always impressed with the writers. I really enjoyed these classic lines from Janeway...

All we have to do now is out think a think tank. - Think Tank
Assemble the staff. We're going to have to find a way to out smart a smart bomb. - Warhead
We have to out-Ferengi the Ferengi - False Profits

can we create a time amchine and exercise this show from existence?

No, because unlike you we don't all have some psychotic hatred of a show just because it wasn't perfect.

LOL psychotic - no just killing time waiting for the gf

look I think the show was awful and being a big ST fan I think it really hurt the franchise - like millions other do

the difference is those millions don;t bother posting about it - they just totally gave up on trek