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Issues with DS9

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*raises hand* Another one who loved the inclusion of Vic Fontaine. James Darren kicks ass! ;)


I saw James Darren at a Slanted Fedora con in Kansas city several years ago, he's cool to see in person!

Maybe it is because I like Sinatra, and "The way you look tonight" was my wedding song, I never hated Vic Fontaine or see him as a rip-off Voyager character. Was Vic "essential" to the DS9 storyline? No, but he's cool in my book.
 
Who wouldn't wanna be Vic Fontaine's pally. Vic is amazing.

.. and sometimes annoying :p

and always an insult to adult sci fi

No I have to disagree, sorry:

"Spock's Brain" is an insult to Sci-Fi.

"Galactica 1980" is an insult to Sci-Fi.

"Superman: IV" is not only an insult to Sci-Fi but a waste of time and film.

Oh ya, about 1/2 the stuff on the Sci-Si channel is an insult to Sci-Fi, not Vic Fontaine.

Of course, MHO "Pally". :)
 
Who wouldn't wanna be Vic Fontaine's pally. Vic is amazing.

.. and sometimes annoying :p

and always an insult to adult sci fi

and I assume you think TOS wasn't? (annoying, I mean) ;)

your views on DS9 suffer from a clear pro-TOS bias. which is a shame because the two shows have much in common. you do not understand DS9 because you prefer not to. that much is clear.

I love TOS and I love DS9. TNG was a good Trek show, but it wasn't great. TOS and DS9 clearly were. and that is because they both explored the human condition in ways that TNG did not.
 
.. and sometimes annoying :p

and always an insult to adult sci fi

and I assume you think TOS wasn't? (annoying, I mean) ;)

your views on DS9 suffer from a clear pro-TOS bias. which is a shame because the two shows have much in common. you do not understand DS9 because you prefer not to. that much is clear.

I love TOS and I love DS9. TNG was a good Trek show, but it wasn't great. TOS and DS9 clearly were. and that is because they both explored the human condition in ways that TNG did not.

i would call it qualty entertainment bias - TOS, TW, X-Files
DS9 is no where near that league

Not horrible mind you but not even close
 
I have to agree with you Mr. Fergy.
I remember when I first got cable I was so excited to have the Sci-Fi channel. Only to realize that either 1) I wasn't a sci-fi fan or 2) the Sci Fi channel has the worst sci fi in the history of the world...
 
I have to agree with you Mr. Fergy.
I remember when I first got cable I was so excited to have the Sci-Fi channel. Only to realize that either 1) I wasn't a sci-fi fan or 2) the Sci Fi channel has the worst sci fi in the history of the world...

Great minds think alike! :techman:
 
#1 - Ferengi are CLOWNS - turning ST into Lost in Space

maybe them weren't as threatening as GR had intended but the Ferengi in seasons 1-2 of TNG were at least not a joke

I found then annoying at times and yet they and some of their stories added to the depth of the DSP universe. I am a fan of Lost in Space and you could NEVER mistake LIS with DS9 no matter how many Ferengi you put in an episode.

#2 - The music - think grand not MUSAK which was Berman's edict that still has me saying WTF?

The music was booming and majestic. Left me with the impression of an old fort in space standing guard proudly.

#3 - Vic Fontaine - Why WHY WHYYYYY

Cause he was cool...Sinatra and Sammy and Deano cool baby :P

4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted

Hardly a downside of the series, I found it fascinating to see this type of universe have to come to grips with the utter failure of their own take on foreign policy and struggle to survive against a relentless and intelligent oppoent.

0# woman tossing 220# men around like rag dolls - come on

Now you are simply reaching for problems with this series

Too much technobabble and talking in general

A lot less my friend then TNG, Voy and ENT to be sure


the list goes on

Actually it really doesnt, and compared to your list in VOY this one is interestingly weak :P

saddly because there was alot to like and some good actors but once you throw in Rom or Zek ----- well you get the point

and NO way GR would go for this

Nope Im sure he wouldn't have. However it wasn't his take on the universe it was someone elses and it was meant to be different.

I think it did just fine, it is the best of the Modern Treks and in my opinion stuck more to the flavor and feel of TOS more than any of the other spin offs.

Just my opinion

Vons
 
I'm not going to bother giving a point-by-point response since everyone else seems to have done that quite marvelously. However, after reading this whole thread, I believe I can sum the OP's problem with DS9 into 2 acronyms and an abbreviation:
DS9 wasn't TOS
Most, if not all of his replys, consisted of a comparision to TOS. And you know what, he's exactly right. DS9 isn't TOS. Sure, it may have captured TOS's spirit, but it's an entirely different entity. jimbtnp2, if you're waiting for a Trek series to be TOS, I have bad news for you: it simply won't happen. Perspectives were different in the '60s. Story telling was different in the '60s. TOS was in its own class, and you will never find another show, particularly another show like the TOS. Comparing any new shows to TOS and demanding that they abide by the "guidelines" and "standards" set by it will just lead you to the disapointment of "Another lousy Trek movie" or "Another unfaithful series". The TOS you knew ain't coming back.

Personally, I love DS9. I thought it was thought provoking, very interesting, and I've always been a fan of arcs or serialization. It gives the writers the ability to do bigger things- tell bigger, more fleshed out stories. The reset button doesn't get hit at the end of each episode, whatever changes effect them that episode will effect them in the future. DS9 did well in the modern day what TOS did well in the '60s.
 
I really only like the 1st and 3rd season and parts of 2 on TNG Voyager was an abomination Enterprise was watchable in the 3rd and improved a bit more in the 4th
nothing else really need be said

man, first season TNG is so bad that my personal canon sets the filmed version in a parallel universe.

Geordi is the pilot
Riker has no beard
Data's emotions are all over the place
Deanna as well
Worf kind of stands around with little to do except pull a phaser on the viewscreen
the battlebridge
wait, why is O'Brien there? why aren't any of the engineers in engineering?
everyone wears pajamas and lie down in lounge chairs
we can't stop staring at crotches
EVERYTHING is made of worthless GOLD.
not to mention the stories...

I'll take any lousy Ferengi episode of DS9 over first season TNG anytime, even if it means wasting hours debating the Jewish stereotypes afterwards.
 
I'm not going to bother giving a point-by-point response since everyone else seems to have done that quite marvelously. However, after reading this whole thread, I believe I can sum the OP's problem with DS9 into 2 acronyms and an abbreviation:
DS9 wasn't TOS
Most, if not all of his replys, consisted of a comparision to TOS. And you know what, he's exactly right. DS9 isn't TOS. Sure, it may have captured TOS's spirit, but it's an entirely different entity. jimbtnp2, if you're waiting for a Trek series to be TOS, I have bad news for you: it simply won't happen. Perspectives were different in the '60s. Story telling was different in the '60s. TOS was in its own class, and you will never find another show, particularly another show like the TOS. Comparing any new shows to TOS and demanding that they abide by the "guidelines" and "standards" set by it will just lead you to the disapointment of "Another lousy Trek movie" or "Another unfaithful series". The TOS you knew ain't coming back.

Personally, I love DS9. I thought it was thought provoking, very interesting, and I've always been a fan of arcs or serialization. It gives the writers the ability to do bigger things- tell bigger, more fleshed out stories. The reset button doesn't get hit at the end of each episode, whatever changes effect them that episode will effect them in the future. DS9 did well in the modern day what TOS did well in the '60s.


HEAR HEAR!

It was the serialisation that I thought made DS9, and helped Enterprise pick up (for instance, Trip became more human in series 3 - reacting long term to his sister's death, compared to the "whoops, it'll be better by next week" characterisation we were all used to at the end of season 2's Cogenitor), though I will be the first to say they didn't always get it right. And I believe it was the lack of this method of storytelling that hurt Voyager. They didn't always use the reset button, but how many times did Seven of Nine's nanoprobes save the day?

If they were to have made DS9 now, TV land is different again. How many shows actually stick to the standalone episode format nowadays? Thanks to shows like 24, Lost, Heroes and an entire plethora of serialised shows, we're more into shows now where you're vested in actual long-term character development and an overarching story that has a beginning, a middle, an end, and a whole load of mystery and intrigue in between.

True, I do like a good standalone episode or an episode dedicated to character development, but that era of TV is, by and large, gone nowadays. In that respect, DS9 (and Babylon 5), were pretty much ahead of their time.

As for the other complaints, I never had anything against the music, and although the Ferengi were used as the comic relief to break the otherwise dark themes of the show (sometimes to their detriment, I feel), there are some scenes that just excel purely because of the Ferengi perspective (Quark's speeches regarding humanity in The Jem'Hadar, Little Green Men and The Siege of AR-558 jump instantly to mind).

I apologise if this went way off topic :p Having recently finished watching all 7 seasons of DS9, I'm still feeling quite passionate about it :bolian:
 
5 pages? You all have gone on for 5 pages? DS-9 was a clever, refreshing and informative show-when it was good. I say informative because of the insights into Bajor and its society, its take on the Federation and the expansion of knowledge about the Cardassians and Ferengi. That having been said-the OP listed things he/she/it didn't like, points of unrealistic behaviors, far-fetched character portrayals etc. In a scifi show. Hello-what did you want? Dry as dust astronauts conducting system checklists? Or a rollicking good hour of TV?
 
I believe that DS9 was basically a good, solid Trek show that had the potential to be the best with its premise. Unfortunately, the writing prevented it from achieving its potential.

As for the racism comment . . . I find it odd that whomever had started this thread, created a similar one for VOYAGER. That means he or she created a thread solely focused to criticize the two Trek shows that did not have a white male in its lead. Yet, this person had failed to create a thread for TOS, TNG and ENT - three shows that starred a white, male actor.

I'm sorry if my comment made many uncomfortable, but when a member creates threads criticizing two shows that did not have a white male in its lead and fails to do the same for the three shows that did, I begin to wonder.

And why is it when the topic of race is brought up, everyone starts having fits?
 
^ No, I agree with you. I've noticed his "other thread" in the Voyager forum as well. It's Sad, huh? :(
 
I believe that DS9 was basically a good, solid Trek show that had the potential to be the best with its premise. Unfortunately, the writing prevented it from achieving its potential.

As for the racism comment . . . I find it odd that whomever had started this thread, created a similar one for VOYAGER. That means he or she created a thread solely focused to criticize the two Trek shows that did not have a white male in its lead. Yet, this person had failed to create a thread for TOS, TNG and ENT - three shows that starred a white, male actor.

I'm sorry if my comment made many uncomfortable, but when a member creates threads criticizing two shows that did not have a white male in its lead and fails to do the same for the three shows that did, I begin to wonder.

And why is it when the topic of race is brought up, everyone starts having fits?

Those are disgusting comments you should apologize
 
Iits sad stating the obvious about a bad show and overated DS9?

Those are disgusting comments you should apologize

Uhhh... you're not really getting anywhere, at least not anywhere you want to take this thread. That's largely due to the credit of the forum's regular residents. If you really have criticisms of the show, you can certainly express them. However, so far you've brought up nothing that resembles willingness to discuss.

Is there any point for you to continue here?
 
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