Issues with DS9

[DanCPA]

Here is TE's response to this list...

#1 - Ferengi are CLOWNS - turning ST into Lost in Space

maybe them weren't as threatening as GR had intended but the Ferengi in seasons 1-2 of TNG were at least not a joke

But we didn't see too much of the Ferengi. We saw Quark and Rom.
Think of the other ferengi's we did see... They were trying to make money and not really dealing with other alpha quadrant powers...

We did see that Gayla is more than capable of being violent to achieve his goals

#2 - The music - think grand not MUSAK which was Berman's edict that still has me saying WTF?

What music? I love DS9's use of music to pace the show

#3 - Vic Fontaine - Why WHY WHYYYYY

Because the holodecks exist, and to not use would be silly. If anything, I loved that DS9 showed that they characters could use the holodeck without it taking a dump every week. Often times, we would hear a bout Miles and Julian and their latest plans in the holodeck... Vic seems a logical extension... I mean, why not visit 1950's Vegas? And if it's interesting, why not stay?

#4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted

Goes back to the consequences of your decisions premise... These are the real deal consequences of their actions. The Enterprises and Voyager could merely fly away and go off on their next adventure... DS9 dealt with their decisions.

#5 - 110# woman tossing 220# men around like rag dolls - come on

It has never been established that bajoran women are no more or less stronger physically... but yeah, I''ll grant you that one

#6 - Too much technobabble and talking in general

Really? As a matter of fact, I thought there was too little technobabble from time to time... I would have enjoyed seeing the chief bitch about putting the cardassian tech back in line after they retook the station in S6


and the list goes on

saddly because there was alot to like and some good actors but once you throw in Rom or Zek ----- well you get the point

and NO way GR would go for this[/quote]

 

[CommanderJMic]

Not that I agree with him (DS9 rocks), but why argue with the OP at all? He seems pretty set in his thinking. I doubt any of you are going to convince him of anything.

Of course, if this mode of thinking were truly accepted, I think sci-fi BBS's would vanish all together

 

[smeos]

And of course the overriding lack of discovering the unknown or pushing the audience to think as in TOS

Are you cereal? DS9 had the other side of the galaxy for gods sake. As for thinking, get the fuck outta here. DS9 examined contemporary issues FAR better than any of the other shows, including TOS. It delved into those moral gray areas much, much more and that's why it was the best series.

Really ? Like ???

Sure there were a few but NO WAY like TOS


get a grip

All right, let's break this down into two categories. Discovery and Thought:

Discovery:

DS9 found a wormhole to the other side of the galaxy. They went through it, looked around for a bit, met some new cultures and discovered one of the greatest threats in Federation history.

TOS found a giant amoeba and a planet killer (which was cool) and then just kind of wandered around (to the edge of the galaxy, no less) and met new people. Most of which were painful caricatures of real life. Alien Hippies are much, much worse than Ferengi.

Advantage: DS9.

Thought:

DS9 examined complex issues involving war, peace, genocide, morality and ethics, politics, racism, fanaticism and greed. Some of this was done subtly and some of this was more overt. Either way it was (usually) done with a class and skill not seen on TOS.

TOS had a bunch of hokey analogies with the 1960's. While these were revolutionary at the time, they have since become outdated and campy. Bill. Shatner's. Acting. Didn't. Help. Matters much. Either.

Advantage: DS9

Get a grip.

 

[RaymondJames]

Dude, you hav eissues with everything and your Ds9 issues are pretty much identical to the Voyager issues.
You have your opinions and your allowed to have them, and its great you do. One thing that you pick as a problem is technobable? WHAT THE HELL would a science fiction show about space be anything without its technobable?

Ferengi characters were few, you din't see Rom or Nog every episode. Quark on the other hand was amain character. HE BROUGH COMEDY to the show, its needed. Benjamin was a leader, he was serious practicly 24/7 unless in a scene with Jadzia/Ezri or his son. Worf was a Warrior and alover, humor was not his area. Odo and Kira were interesting and had a relationship. Miles and Julian were good buddies, pals they brough some laughs but not alot. Quark and the rest of the Ferengi brough houmor to the show. Without them it would of been just Dark and Warbased, very dry aswell.

 

[msbae]

Discovering a new southern california alien bumpy head of the week doesn't qualify for pushing the envelope - TOS was always exploring the huiman condition DS9 rarely did that

I just have to ask a few questions, man...

1.) Are you on Crack?

2.) Are you absolutely sure you were watching the same show as the rest of us?

3.) What better way to explore the darker parts of Human Nature than examining people in a war? None of the other shows had the Balls to do that very often, which is a shame.

As for the Ferengi, I'm glad GR's plan for them didn't pan out. They would have become the Used Car salesmen of the universe. That would be much worse than being comic relief or really shrewd businessmen.

The topic creator has got to be a troll.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I agree, too much talking. I would have preferred the whole series to have been done in pantomime.

 

[adv1701]

TOS was perceived as pushing the envelope because it was a different time and pointing out things that people didn't discuss.It is harder to evaluate how DS9 did that because at that point in our development as a society we were more jaded. I love TOS and DS9 is my favorite of the modern treks.Best characters(especially Sisko),great storytelling and more action than previous and subsequent trek.

 

[Damask]

Quark is the most lethal person in Trek. When he's using a weapon he kills in one go and never misses. Not even Data has that kind of ratio.

Rom came up with self replicating cloaked mines that may have saved the Alpha Quadrant!

Also while some Ferengi episodes bored me to tears I liked how their society was beginning to evolve with Ishka, Rom and Zek.

Love the fact that it was on DS9 that a Ferengi joined Starfleet. None of TNG "greedy trolls" or Voyagers "We were warned about the Ferengi in school" rubbish.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

The Ferengis may be clown at times (See Profit and Lace) but DS9 as a whole is pretty damned good.

I'd say it was OK, but nothing like TOS

Hey I liked TOS, TNG and sometimes Enterprise as well. Not voyager so much.

 

[jimbtnp2]

Are you cereal? DS9 had the other side of the galaxy for gods sake. As for thinking, get the fuck outta here. DS9 examined contemporary issues FAR better than any of the other shows, including TOS. It delved into those moral gray areas much, much more and that's why it was the best series.

Really ? Like ???

Sure there were a few but NO WAY like TOS


get a grip

All right, let's break this down into two categories. Discovery and Thought:

Discovery:

DS9 found a wormhole to the other side of the galaxy. They went through it, looked around for a bit, met some new cultures and discovered one of the greatest threats in Federation history.

TOS found a giant amoeba and a planet killer (which was cool) and then just kind of wandered around (to the edge of the galaxy, no less) and met new people. Most of which were painful caricatures of real life. Alien Hippies are much, much worse than Ferengi.

Advantage: DS9.

Thought:

DS9 examined complex issues involving war, peace, genocide, morality and ethics, politics, racism, fanaticism and greed. Some of this was done subtly and some of this was more overt. Either way it was (usually) done with a class and skill not seen on TOS.

TOS had a bunch of hokey analogies with the 1960's. While these were revolutionary at the time, they have since become outdated and campy. Bill. Shatner's. Acting. Didn't. Help. Matters much. Either.

Advantage: DS9

Get a grip.

Its people like you that bring Trek to its knees - you speak of details but no substance - TOS just going around meeting new people - YES THAT"s The point

DS9 and other mdern trek ruined Trek and turned it into a fanboy soap opera

 

[jimbtnp2]

Quark is the most lethal person in Trek. When he's using a weapon he kills in one go and never misses. Not even Data has that kind of ratio.

Rom came up with self replicating cloaked mines that may have saved the Alpha Quadrant!

Also while some Ferengi episodes bored me to tears I liked how their society was beginning to evolve with Ishka, Rom and Zek.

Love the fact that it was on DS9 that a Ferengi joined Starfleet. None of TNG "greedy trolls" or Voyagers "We were warned about the Ferengi in school" rubbish.

Yep Rom came up with self rplicating ( impossible BTW in real science) cloaked mines - that's all I need to hear
sounds like a saturday morning cartoon

 

[Photon]

#4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted#

Wah wah wah, why can't we just all get along-we'll have peace in our time.

Dude the serialized war was the best part of DS9 and the best part of Trek.

You are desperately seeking a clue.

 

[Photon]

Are you a member, in good standing w/the Green Party?
If you're male, have your testosterone levels checked at the nearest dr. office. Unless you live where you have to wait on things like that until the govt OK's the procedure.

 

[jimbtnp2]

Discovering a new southern california alien bumpy head of the week doesn't qualify for pushing the envelope - TOS was always exploring the huiman condition DS9 rarely did that

I just have to ask a few questions, man...

1.) Are you on Crack?

2.) Are you absolutely sure you were watching the same show as the rest of us?

3.) What better way to explore the darker parts of Human Nature than examining people in a war? None of the other shows had the Balls to do that very often, which is a shame.

As for the Ferengi, I'm glad GR's plan for them didn't pan out. They would have become the Used Car salesmen of the universe. That would be much worse than being comic relief or really shrewd businessmen.

The topic creator has got to be a troll.

Exploring people in war - playing in holodeck with Jimmy darren!!! Classic!

TOS didn't have comic relief - Lost in Space did and the Fereengi make ST into Lost in Deep Space Nine

compare great shows like TOS, Twi-light and movies like 2001 or Planet of the Apes to DS9 - no comparison

 

[Mr. Fergy]

#4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted#

Wah wah wah, why can't we just all get along-we'll have peace in our time.

Dude the serialized war was the best part of DS9 and the best part of Trek.

You are desperately seeking a clue.

Agreed. I'm sorry the commander feels that all Trek, except TOS, is inferior.

 

[jimbtnp2]

#4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted#

Wah wah wah, why can't we just all get along-we'll have peace in our time.

Dude the serialized war was the best part of DS9 and the best part of Trek.

You are desperately seeking a clue.

best part of trek - its was boring as hell

 

[jimbtnp2]

#4 - Serialized war - this isn't as bad as nuBSG but the beginnings of soap opera were planted#

Wah wah wah, why can't we just all get along-we'll have peace in our time.

Dude the serialized war was the best part of DS9 and the best part of Trek.

You are desperately seeking a clue.

Agreed. I'm sorry the commander feels that all Trek, except TOS, is inferior.

it was fundamentally flawed just in its basic story telling - let alone the ST elements

 

[Navaros]

DS9's war storytelling and storytelling in general is by far the finest storytelling that Trek has ever known.

 

[jimbtnp2]

DS9's war storytelling and storytelling in general is by far the finest storytelling that Trek has ever known.

couldn't disagree more

 

[TeutonicNights]

DS9 is awesome and you know it.