Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we love

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

The obvious solution is Paramount needs to give each of us $50 million so we can all make our own version of how Star Trek should really be.

$50 million? My true vision would cost $1 billion dollars to bring to the big screen!

 

[drt]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I give full credit to Berman for turning TNG around, but like others above, think he maybe should have passed the reins on to someone else after a while. Particularly, since as a TV guy, he probably wasn't best suited to also be running the film franchise.

 

[Melakon]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

BillJ, I wasn't counting your salary.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

If we're talking about the next generation stuff, then it was Michael Piller, all the way. His control increased both critical acclaim and TV ratings. And when he left, things started to go downhill.

I suppose there was Insurrection though. But that probably suffered because of studio and actor interference, and Star Trek was already in its decline.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

BillJ, I wasn't counting your salary.

Neither was I. Better give me $2 billion. Just to be safe.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

BillJ, I wasn't counting your salary.

Neither was I. Better give me $2 billion. Just to be safe.

 

[OmahaStar]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I think Rick Berman is the most underrated, most underappriciated individual well, like, of ALL time in ANY field...

As Harlan Ellison would say, everyone is entitled to their informed opinion.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Berman's abilities, but will defend your right to have and speak those opinions.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I can't help but think that there are similarities between Berman and Lorne Michaels' leadership styles. They're both very keen businessmen, but after a certain point, give up the creative leadership reins or else the product becomes stale and simply that -- a product and nothing more. You'll still have your baby sure, but let someone else drive a bit. We praise people like RDM and Tina Fey respectively*, and their careers skyrocketed because of their bosses, but we also liked it whenever they had the opportunity to flex their creative leadership muscles.

*Note: this is the only time that I'll ever compare RDM and Tina Fey, I think

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I think Rick Berman is the most underrated, most underappriciated individual well, like, of ALL time in ANY field...

No.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Abrams made good movie called Star Trek but he didn't make a good Star Trek movie.

There's no reason something philosophically in sync with Star Trek couldn't be profitable, it would just be more difficult to pull off.

It's true Berman was very successful in productizing Star Trek, and like it or not, that is part of what made it great for the early parts of his tenure, and a huge part of what kept it on the air so long. But really what made it creatively great were the writing contributions from names like Piller, Behr, Biemer, and Moore. Star Trek worked best with Berman in the producer seat without a pen in his hands.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Abrams made good movie called Star Trek but he didn't make a good Star Trek movie.

There's no reason something philosophically in sync with Star Trek couldn't be profitable, it would just be more difficult to pull off.

I didn't find the Abrams "philosophically out-of-sync" with the rest of the franchise. Especially Star Trek: The Original Series.

 

[Roald]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

In defense of Berman as producer of the TNG movies..: those films had limited budgets... I think they worked well as 'big television episodes', but you couldn't expect them to be really MOVIE big, 'cause the budgets just wouldn't allow it... But there is a LOT of heart in a film like Insurrection... I think the morality issues are SO good, and that speech between Picard and the admiral about the prime directive... WOW... THAT was Berman; he wanted to maintain the ST Philosophy, despite knowing that a larger audience probably expected a big action story... So he had to find something in between... With a relatively tiny budget, that is impossible to do....

 

[CoveTom]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I couldn't have been happier with DS9 and TNG. Its when Brannon Braga and Jeri Taylor got involved is where I think things went wrong.

Jeri Taylor was involved since TNG season 5, and continued to be involved until Voyager's 4th season. At which point during this seven year period did "things go wrong?"

Jeri Taylor's biggest inflluence on TNG was in seasons 6 and 7, when Piller was almost entirely focused on running DS9 and, later, developing Voyager. And, if you ask me, season 7 is perhaps the weakest of TNG's run, even weaker than season 1.

Similarly, when Piller was at the helm of Voyager was when I thought that show was at its best. It started to go downhill somewhat when Taylor took over, and then really dropped off when Braga took over for her.

So, yeah, I'd say Jeri Taylor's tenure is, IMHO, one of lowered quality.

The best team in modern Trek, again IMHO, was Berman and Piller, with Berman and Behr being a close second.

 

[CoveTom]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

In defense of Berman as producer of the TNG movies..: those films had limited budgets... I think they worked well as 'big television episodes', but you couldn't expect them to be really MOVIE big, 'cause the budgets just wouldn't allow it...

I don't know. Wrath of Khan was made for $11 million by Paramount's television division, and I don't recall having ever heard anyone say that it comes off as just a 'big television episode.'

As Nicholas Meyer is fond of saying, art thrives on restrictions. In the right hands, a limited budget can force creativity and be a good thing. In the wrong hands, it can be disastrous. But having a limited budget, alone, is not an excuse for a movie to fail.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I'm really not seeing any heart in Insurrection, frankly. If it did, the characters (good and bad) would have more conviction and thus be more compelling. If the characters were more compelling, then the story would've been better. And if the story was better, then the movie would be better. Rather, I'm just seeing dollar signs in the execs eyes, and it ended up being one big snoozefest. The many iterations of the draft and the drama to get the movie made is also well-publicized.

Nemesis came in ahead of schedule and under budget, from what I understand, to the point where Berman refused Paramount's initial offer of a larger budget. Ok. But that time could've been spent refining the script and going through a couple more drafts, I feel (and maybe director-school for Baird, who previously muddled the legendary "Fugitive" movie with the lackluster "US Marshals."). So there's one thing to be said about efficiency, but it's another to use time and budget wisely for a fine product.

 

[Roald]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

In defense of Berman as producer of the TNG movies..: those films had limited budgets... I think they worked well as 'big television episodes', but you couldn't expect them to be really MOVIE big, 'cause the budgets just wouldn't allow it...

I don't know. Wrath of Khan was made for $11 million by Paramount's television division, and I don't recall having ever heard anyone say that it comes off as just a 'big television episode.'

As Nicholas Meyer is fond of saying, art thrives on restrictions. In the right hands, a limited budget can force creativity and be a good thing. In the wrong hands, it can be disastrous. But having a limited budget, alone, is not an excuse for a movie to fail.

No you're right, but 1994 was a different era than 1982... Khan was a good film, but I tried watching it with a total non-Trekkie around 1995, and he couldn't get into it cause he felt it was like a cheap B movie... In the end, there are only three big budget Trek films: TMP, Trek 09 and STID... Maybe not the best Trek movies, but visually spectacular...

 

[JeffinOakland]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Isn't fun to retroactively criticize complete strangers for how they handled a job we wouldn't know how to do?

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Isn't fun to retroactively criticize complete strangers for how they handled a job we wouldn't know how to do?

It's a message board about a TV/Movie series. What else are we suppose to talk about, exactly? Should we never criticize anything more than a year or two old? He stuck around so long that Trek became an incredibly stale franchise.

Berman did some decent work hiring other writers but, ultimately, his contributions have been forgettable. Much of Modern Trek has been forgettable.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

...and he couldn't get into it cause he felt it was like a cheap B movie...

In all the years I've been a Trek fan, I've never seen this criticism of The Wrath of Khan before.

 

[Roald]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Isn't fun to retroactively criticize complete strangers for how they handled a job we wouldn't know how to do?

It's a message board about a TV/Movie series. What else are we suppose to talk about, exactly? Should we never criticize anything more than a year or two old? He stuck around so long that Trek became an incredibly stale franchise.

Berman did some decent work hiring other writers but, ultimately, his contributions have been forgettable. Much of Modern Trek has been forgettable.

ST never became stale to me... In ENT's third season, one of the main characters became a drug addict! Something that would have been unthinkable in TNG..! The idea that Berman didn't take creative risks as Trek went on is just not true... And to call his contribution to Trek forgettable, well I couldn't have said it better: Rick Berman is the most underappriciated person EVER.........