Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we love

[Roald]

I think Rick Berman is the most underrated, most underappriciated individual well, like, of ALL time in ANY field... Think about it... When did TNG become good..? It was when Berman got the keys to the castle.. And when he did, he created this über enjoyable, warm palette, that was limited I must admit, but it was the Star Trek we came to love; the Star Trek of the Prime Universe... I think that if it wasn't for him, ST would have gotten a lot darker from 1995 on, cause television in general was getting darker... But he stuck with the ST philosophy, and despite the hatred for VOY and ENT, it was still ST, generating an untouchable positive vibe, that no other series can match... So all these people that bash the NuTrek films because it isn't 'ST', mostly they're Berman-bashers as well... But they're bashing the man who was responsible for the 'ST' they love the most... It a strange paradox I guess...

 

[bbjeg]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I disagree. Though he helped expand the universe we are familiar with, I thought he was a stepping stone to an even larger universe. I was hoping one day that he'd relinquish his "keys to the kingdom" where someone else would take the story ahead another century with even more twists and turns. I liked NuTrek and all but I was hoping they'd continue to boldly go where no one has gone before, instead of going back to where we've been.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

The question is did he stay too long? Should he have moved on and let new blood in to re-inviograte the franchise?

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I've got no ill will against Rick Berman, but he was a studio executive put in the producers chair to make sure TNG stayed on time and on budget. He kept the job because everything remained on time and on budget. But he was also there when things creatively went to shit and headed three very lackluster TNG films.

Plus, the Star Trek that I love is TOS. Which Rick Berman had no part of.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Berman definitely deserves his share of the credit for getting TNG back on track. The sole genius who saved the series? Not at all, he was one member of the team that saved the series. But, some time along the line he got tired. He ran out of new ideas and the network squashed the new ideas he did have so he just kind of hung on to what worked for him with TNG, and it just kind of lost its energy. Notice that Enterprise was revitalized when Manny Coto came aboard.

 

[CoveTom]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I disagree with some of Berman's choices, but I do agree that he gets too much of the blame and not enough of the credit.

It's generally agreed that TNG got really good with the third season -- though I still have a fondness for the first two. The third season is when Berman really fully took over the reins from Roddenberry, and where Michael Piller took over for Maurice Hurley. Yet despite the fact that these two things happened simultaneously, Berman's name is only invoked when discussing the bad, and Piller is always the one credited with the good.

Yes, I think Berman does deserve some credit for the things we love about that era of Star Trek, just has he also deserves some of the blame for the things we hate.

 

[OpenMaw]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

He helped give us three of the best seasons of TNG (3 to 5), and for awhile he kept some of Roddenberry's better ideas in place, but I do think the biggest problem is he didn't hand over the reigns sooner, or at the very least delegate more.

 

[Melakon]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Plus, the Star Trek that I love is TOS. Which Rick Berman had no part of.

Same.

The only thing I give Rick Berman credit for was being able to keep the franchise active as long as he did. He never seemed that good on the creative side of things like writing, but he built an efficient team of production people behind the camera who had jobs lasting over 15 years, which is rare in television.

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I can remember a friend of mine bashing Harve Bennett, and then it was Rick Berman's turn.

Rick Berman deserves credit for keeping the franchise alive from the late 80s to the 00s. He's responsible for some fantastic Star Trek shows and episodes, but he's also the guy who kept saying "we have the best villain since Khan for this movie." and clearly misfired 3 out of 4 TNG movies.

And since the TNG movies were high profile ads for the franchise, it didn't help the franchise that they weren't very good. If that's the quality that ultimately came from the TNG movies, then it's a shame TNG simply didn't remain a TV show.

I can't blame Berman and his staff for running out of gas at the end.

I wish he had passed the baton or that he could've taken some action at the end to prevent having Trek being run into the ground.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

He was a businessman who thought he could be creative. He was wrong. And instead of sticking to the business end and finding creative spirits to create the creative part, he clung like a fucking remora and sucked all the life out of it. The only thing he "created" was blandness and frustration.

Nothing illustrated that better than "These Are the Voyages", a steaming dump-truck-load of shit dropped on our heads after a season of relative sunlight.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

He was a businessman who thought he could be creative. He was wrong. And instead of sticking to the business end and finding creative spirits to create the creative part, he clung like a fucking remora and sucked all the life out of it. The only thing he "created" was blandness and frustration.

Nothing illustrated that better than "These Are the Voyages", a steaming dump-truck-load of shit dropped on our heads after a season of relative sunlight.

I tried to be nice about it but this pretty much sums it up!

 

[Melakon]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I think ENT would have been a lot better if Berman had abandoned any fantasies about being a writer and had just left Braga alone.

His only good idea I know of was to make Voyager's Borg crewmember female.

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

He was a businessman who thought he could be creative. He was wrong. And instead of sticking to the business end and finding creative spirits to create the creative part, he clung like a fucking remora and sucked all the life out of it. The only thing he "created" was blandness and frustration.

Nothing illustrated that better than "These Are the Voyages", a steaming dump-truck-load of shit dropped on our heads after a season of relative sunlight.

I tried to be nice about it but this pretty much sums it up!

Yeah.

I just read over my own post in this thread and I think you can tell that I was trying to be nice at first, but as you fast-forward through the Berman narrative in your head, it's hard to keep being nice when it all fell apart eventually under his watch. His movie track record was terrible.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

That filthy Harve Bennett/Rick Berman/J.J. Abrams [delete as applicable] ruined Star Trek forever! The integrity of canon has been forever besmirched! *froths at mouth while reciting continuity errors perpetuated under [whoever]'s regime while ignoring all the others*

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I for one admire and appreciate how Harve Bennett helped reinvigorate Star Trek.

What Paramount did by kicking Roddenberry upstairs and giving Bennett the reins is what they should've done to Berman around 1998.

Bennett made some ballsy moves: killing Spock, bringing him back, blowing up the Enterprise, turning Kirk and company rogue, going from a dark film to a comedy. He always seemed to be helping Star Trek keep it fresh.

 

[allstar77]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I disagree. Though he helped expand the universe we are familiar with, I thought he was a stepping stone to an even larger universe. I was hoping one day that he'd relinquish his "keys to the kingdom" where someone else would take the story ahead another century with even more twists and turns. I liked NuTrek and all but I was hoping they'd continue to boldly go where no one has gone before, instead of going back to where we've been.

This sums it up.

 

[EnriqueH]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I disagree. Though he helped expand the universe we are familiar with, I thought he was a stepping stone to an even larger universe. I was hoping one day that he'd relinquish his "keys to the kingdom" where someone else would take the story ahead another century with even more twists and turns. I liked NuTrek and all but I was hoping they'd continue to boldly go where no one has gone before, instead of going back to where we've been.

This sums it up.

HO.

LEE.

SHIT.

Where did you get that avatar, Allstar???

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

Plus, the Star Trek that I love is TOS. Which Rick Berman had no part of.

This.

But even talking about TNG, I'm inclined to think it benefited more from Roddenberry leaving than from Berman arriving.

And he'll forever be on my shit list for what he did to Trek music. I can count on one hand the examples of music I've encountered that is so bad it actually pisses me off, and the bland, meandering "music" from later TNG and the following spinoffs tops the list.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

It's true Rick Berman is unfairly vilified among Trek fandom, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the success of TNG is solely his doing. Berman was only really an executive, keeping watch over the franchise as a whole and had very little creative control over the individual shows. Yes, he's credited as a co-creator on DS9, Voyager and Enterprise, and does share story developing credit on all the TNG movies and several episodes of the 24th century era shows, and even co-writing credit on several Enterprise episodes, a lot of the shows are the results of the writers and show runners, people like Michael Piller, Jeri Taylor, Brannon Braga, Ira Steven Behr, Ron Moore, Manny Coto and so on play just as much a role in the success or failure of Trek as Berman did. Berman had veto authority over the shows, but rarely exercised it.

But I will agree, Berman's attitude towards music was confusing and frustrating. Hell, just compare some of the great musical scores TV shows today are doing that rival what you hear in movies and it truly is staggering that Trek in the 90s had a better orchestra available to them and was capable of doing something like folks like Bear McCreary or Murray Gold do now with less, but they had instructions not to. Really sad.

 

[dub]

Re: Isn't it time we realize Rick Berman was the genius of the ST we l

I just want to say something good (IMO) about Berman. So here it is: Apparently the designers were churning out all sorts of designs for the DS9 station, and the one in the lead had these loops going around the center. It was Berman who suggested cutting off the top and bottom of the loops leaving us with what would become the final design. I think it's beautiful and that idea was a stroke of genius. Just my opinion though, as I know there are plenty who hate the design which I've learned since joining this BBS. But there is one positive thing, albeit just an opinion about one piece of Trek history.