Is Wesley Crusher a Marty Stu?

[HelenofBorg]

In case you wondered what a Marty Stu is, it's a fandom term, the male variant of a ridiculously idealized character (also sometimes called a Gary Stu), the female form (more common) is a Mary Sue. The term is most often used in fanfictions, but can be applied to canon characters as well. I used to be a member of the late Godawful Fanfiction forums, it once described Mary Sue as 'Braver than Kirk, smarter than Spock, more empathic than Bones, and sleeps with all three'.

I know Wesley had his flaws and he did make some mistakes (like participating in an illegal move involving igniting warp plasma trails when he was flying a shuttle with teammates at the academy) but he did seem to be otherwise an idealized person. He was a little too smart, and had special abilities that the traveller could pick up on. Towards the end of the series, he seemed to have the ability to stop time, like in the epidsode where he left the series, when he stopped time when he was on that planet where there was a confrontation between the Cardassians and the colonists. No other character has been granted such super special powers, not even Ben Sisko in his role as the Emissary of the prophets in DS9. Not to mention that he has saved the day on more than one occasion.

What do you think, Marty Stu or not. I'm on the fence about this, but leaning towards a yes. He isn't so perfect as to be a hollow and completely unrealistic character, yet he seems to be a little too perfect... anyone else think this?

 

[Finn]

 

[Tosk]

I don't usually care to label characters as being a Mary Sue (or whatever male variant you prefer), and it tends to get thrown around all over the place these days. That said, Wesley has a trait that very few other Mary-esque characters do...as well as being a brilliant, smarter-than-most-of-the-crew, ship-saving wunderkind, he also an author self-insert.

 

[HelenofBorg]

Most Mary Sues ARE self inserts, but I was not sure if this was true of Wesley or not. This knowledge pushes me futher into the 'yes' camp.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Most Mary Sues ARE self inserts, but I was not sure if this was true of Wesley or not. This knowledge pushes me futher into the 'yes' camp.

When Gene Roddenberry was grooming Wil Wheaton and (especially) Jonathan Frakes for their roles, he sat them down and said that Wesley, Riker and Admiral James T. Kirk represented himself at stages along a continuum. This was mentioned in numerous interviews in the late 80s.

GR and Wheaton took much offence by reports of fans wearing and selling "Shove Wesley out an airlock!" buttons at cons in 1987/88.

 

[Tosk]

Most Mary Sues ARE self inserts

When being accurate, yes. But my point was that the term usually gets applied these days without that aspect coming into play. [I should perhaps have been more clear on that, apologies for the confusion.]

 

[Prax]

He's an annoying Mary Sue in a lot of season 1, then he's just an annoying teenager in some of season 2. He starts to level out after that. Then in season 7, he made an appearance, and was no longer any of those things. He was just an a-hole...who found out he had magical powers. The writers apparently thought "Wait. Isn't Wesley supposed to be a child prodigy? What's he doing in Starfleet?" So making him a more normal person was ultimately thrown out the window

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Yes.

The term Mary Sue has been co-opted a bit by incels to mean “A competent female”. But it can still be fairly applied to characters who are overly idealized and too good at too many things.

 

[suarezguy]

I would say he is one but only barely, also could be considered a borderline case. He fits most of the criteria (brilliant, more so than others, pretty idealized (although then again all the cast members were), creator-tribute) but kind of really doesn't fit a key one, that the other characters don't particularly love him, in fact are often enough annoyed by him, and yet they do seem to also generally like him, despite annoyances, give him room and have confidence that he'll grow well.

And yet he was only outright smarter than the other crewmembers pretty few times ("The Naked Now", "Datalore" and maybe "The Game") and the show seemed to quickly and very much admit that he was pretty disliked by the viewers rather than thinking the audience loved him or should get to love him.

It's definitely a close call either way, especially given the whole cast being idealized.

 

[Tenacity]

Wesley wasn't consistently at the center of things (only on occasional), people didn't treating him as the prime source of the weeks solution, he wasn't a expert on everything.

Not a Mary sue.

 

[HugeLobes]

There’s usually an element of wish fulfilment to Sues and Stus, which is why they crop up so often in fanfic. Given that Crusher seems to be a very idealised version of GR, it’s probably a pretty accurate title.

 

[valkyrie013]

Not really.. For my personal definition of a Marty/Mary is that there the center, main character, and almost everything revolves around them, and "Only They" can save the world..
So no, Wesley was just a concited ass most of the time.. but he did mellow out in S2and 3 where he was just the Helm guy that helped out ocasionally.
Closest Mary/Marty in Star Trek is Burnham.. while not quite fulfilling all of the definition, She's a bit to much "main Story Pivot" Bit more than just being the Main character

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I wouldn’t say being the sole source of ship saving is a requirement to be a Mary Sue. You don’t have to be the sole source of solutions. You just have to be consistently the one with the answer when everyone else is stumped, especially if you get it through personal brilliance or inspiration, and especially if your backstory doesn’t justify your skill set.

Wesley is not only a Mary Sue, he is *the* quintessential Mary Sue. In a show where they repeatedly stress earning your rank through hard work, he is immediately given a prime duty assignment over somebody who did put in the work. Skill sets, and positions not earned.

 

[Tosk]

...and being the main character is actually the opposite of a classic Mary Sue.

 

[Qonundrum]

In "Datalore", forgetting the blatant Scotty imitation in one or two of the series' worst FTW moments, has all the adults being scripted as utter dumbasses solely to make Wesley look like the only one capable of resolving the problem of "which one is Lore". That's not the best way to write things, especially when "Datalore" at its core had some rather nice ideas - of which those, combined with Brent Spiner, Wil Wheaton, and Gates McFaddon turning in performances that elevate such schlock into something watchable and, indeed, memorable in enough good ways - noting that all in the cast in that episode were pulling their weight but this week's entry did revolve mostly around Data and the Crusher Clan. Never mind this same story has Data (not Lore) using contractions despite the rule being placed rather concretely that Data is incapable of using them. And that's also happening after Lore is dispatched and nobody blinks an eye. Either a retake was needed or the plot rewritten to show that, oops, Wesley isn't perfect and Data got beamed on out. Which might have been interesting except WunderkidWesleyCliche was the focus so that wasn't about to happen.

There's also "The Naked Now", in which Wesley not only resolved the problem with his toy but he also helped make the problem in his pseudo-drunken state to begin with. His tractor beam inversion (which sounds like a far better episode title as well as being the ultimate spoiler) toy pretty much spoils the show via foreshadowing. Especially when nobody else, like Data who sits up there all the time and would be more likely the first to recommend it (as if it's a race, there's never an episode when 1000 people all call the bridge to say "Have you tried _____?") if not Picard, Riker or Troi could. But the tie-in with Wesley's toy ensures we all know the solution upfront, thanks to Wesley yet again. Oh, his other invention is clearly parodied to great effect in "Futurama" by Professor Farnsworth... (ditto for another hilarious episode revealing Julian Bashir Fry being his own grandpa, oh my...)

But those are some prominent examples. I'm almost due for a rewatch and might be sober enough to attempt a tally of every time WonderkidWesleyCliche stands out being a complex Martydom oversimplified.

As early as Season 2, Wesley has scriptwriters giving him some actual depth and humanity while still having teh booksmartz. Sadly, a number of episodes are thrown out without a view because "it's not season 3 or later, eww, cooties" by the gestalt lump of fan consensus, even though numerous season 2 eps range from good to great.

 

[MAGolding]

I wouldn’t say being the sole source of ship saving is a requirement to be a Mary Sue. You don’t have to be the sole source of solutions. You just have to be consistently the one with the answer when everyone else is stumped, especially if you get it through personal brilliance or inspiration, and especially if your backstory doesn’t justify your skill set.

Wesley is not only a Mary Sue, he is *the* quintessential Mary Sue. In a show where they repeatedly stress earning your rank through hard work, he is immediately given a prime duty assignment over somebody who did put in the work. Skill sets, and positions not earned.

What makes you think that being a helmsman is "a prime duty assignment"?

In naval or civilian vessels being the helmsman is a very junior task, sometimes given to a helmsboy or a helmsgirl.

The rule is that an officer gives the order to change course and the helmsman, an enlisted rating, changes the course.

I remember a television recruiting ad for the US navy depicting a teenage sailor, who was thus obviously recently recruited and of low rank, at the steering wheel of an atomic submarine. Note that atomic submarines spend most of their time submerged, and they don't have windows or viewscreens, but sail blindly through the depths. The navigation officer plots the position using various navigational aids, and orders course changes when necessary to travel the desired route. And if sonar detects an a obstacle ahead, the navigation officer orders the helmsman to change course.

So it was really strange that TOS made the usual helmsman Lieutenant Sulu, when enlisted crewmen and women were seen on the series. Remember 17-year-old Charles Evans in "Charlie X" who had a crush on Yeoman Janice Rand? In this scene Rand tries to get Charlie interested in someone else:

RAND: Oh, Charlie. I was looking for you. I'd like you to meet Tina Lawton, Yeoman Third Class. Charlie Evans.
TINA: Hello, Charlie.
RAND: I thought you might enjoy meeting someone your own age.
CHARLIE: Can I talk to you, alone.
RAND: Charlie, Tina's
TINA: Excuse me. I must be wanted somewhere.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/8.htm

As a yeoman, Lawton would be an administrative assistant, and so not likely to be assigned to take the wheel on a naval vessel. But there would be no need to give that task to anyone older, higher ranking, or more experienced than her.

My answer to this question: https://history.stackexchange.com/q...owards-with-a-big-mast-in-his-fac/43637#43637 shows that in sea ships there has historically been a difference between the person who decided what course to take and the person who physically changed the course of a ship.

And since TOS depicted Starfleet as a very nautical institution, it is a little strange that the helmsman was depicted as an officer instead of an enlisted man.

Imagine a typical interstellar voyage in Star Trek, and a typical watch for a helmsman. The helmsman begins his watch when the previous watch is relieved. He checks the ship's current heading. And then he waits for orders to change course. And waits and waits and waits, occasionally checking the instruments to make certain that the ship is not deviating from its course. At the end of the watch, he is relieved by the helmsman of the next watch and leaves without ever having changed the ship's course.

And the ship should continue travelling on a straight course for several watches in a row, even if the ship is travelling from one star system to the next closest star system just a few light years away. Space is so vast that even at Star Trek warp speeds being the helmsman of a starship would usually be very boring.

So I wonder why anyone would think that being a helmsman on a Star Trek starship would be "a prime duty assignment"?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Because Starfleet is not the navy and in Star Trek shows helm is traditionally given to the captain’s inner circle.

In the navy I’m guessing the Captain does not solicit opinions on every action from everyone in ear shot. In Star Trek shows, being in the captain’s line of sight implies getting to weigh in on every issue.