Is Troi nobility?

[T'Girl]

Did we see her representing Betazed in negotiations with the Federation?

Did we see her representing Betazed when the Federation was negotiating with a third party?

Did we see her representing the Federation when negotiating with another party?

We never saw anyone do any of those things. That doesn't change the fact she was the Ambassador.

Spock represented the Federation in talks with the Klingons in TUC.

In the episode Sarek, Ambassador Sarek is traveling to negotiate with the Legarans. I don't recall if he's negotiating for the planet Vulcan, or for the Federation. In Journey to Babel he definitely was representing the planet Vulcan and not the Federation.

 

[tafkats]

On the Pacifica mission, she was essentially another passenger on the Enterprise, and her role at the conference was going to be to represent the government of Betazed. It's not clear if she has some specific ambassadorial status or if she's just their delegate. It's also not clear what exactly the roles of the "Federation ambassadors" visiting the wormhole are, but I would guess that they're each their home planet's representative to the Federation, much like the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., but without the quasi-legislative responsibilities of U.N. ambassadors.

Regarding her noble status, I always figured that Betazed went through reforms at ome point in its history that stripped the nobility of its hereditary power. However, much like on today's Earth, people from prominent families often end up appointed to important positions. She could be the equivalent of, say, a British peer or a member of the Kennedy family -- her authority doesn't legally stem from heredity, but her lineage is one reason she rose to prominence.

 

[Bad Atom]

The real question is, when Disney eventually buys Star Trek, does that make Deanna Troi a Disney Princess?

 

[Shawnster]

Did we see her representing Betazed in negotiations with the Federation?

Did we see her representing Betazed when the Federation was negotiating with a third party?

Did we see her representing the Federation when negotiating with another party?

We never saw anyone do any of those things. That doesn't change the fact she was the Ambassador.

Spock represented the Federation in talks with the Klingons in TUC.

In the episode Sarek, Ambassador Sarek is traveling to negotiate with the Legarans. I don't recall if he's negotiating for the planet Vulcan, or for the Federation. In Journey to Babel he definitely was representing the planet Vulcan and not the Federation.

Thank you. I wasn't trying to be a snot. We must have genuinely saw her do something. As pointed out above, she was acting as an ambassador in the episode "Manhunt." I hadn't looked it up but the ambassadors were gathering to discuss admitting Antedeans to the Federation. So, it appears she was representing Betazed in a way that is similar to a US Senator or Representative represents their home state.

 

[Timo]

It's too bad we never got any dialogue describing Lwaxana Troi as either the Betazed Ambassador or the Betazoid Ambassador in her official quality. At least there would have been a clear grammatical clue there, unlike with Sarek being the Vulcan Ambassador...

The closest we get is her describing herself as "a Betazoid ambassador" in "Half a Life" (if Chrissie's transcript site gets the detail right), but that's nowhere as good as somebody else describing her professional status in such terms.

Also, she's indirectly established as a "Federation Ambassador" in "The Forsaken", although even that can be taken to mean that she's an Ambassador from the Federation instead of for the Federation. That is, the station may be teeming with Ambassadors from all sorts of places, and thus it's helpful to identify that this trio comes from Federation worlds, even though they may represent their native worlds (or perhaps some other worlds?) rather than the Federation as a whole.

Yes, two episodes, "Journey to Babel" and "Manhunt", show Ambassadors from UFP worlds journeying to evaluate a membership application. Is this indication that the worlds send Ambassadors to each other or to the federal government for representation? Or just that Ambassadors from the various worlds are such respected people that they also get used as experts in these sorts of evaluations?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shawnster]

It's too bad we never got any dialogue describing Lwaxana Troi as either the Betazed Ambassador or the Betazoid Ambassador in her official quality. At least there would have been a clear grammatical clue there, unlike with Sarek being the Vulcan Ambassador...

From TNG

Manhunt

LWAXANA: Lwaxana Troi, daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed.
DATA: Full ambassadorial status, sir.
RIKER: It looks like it's back into that dress uniform, sir.
DATA: And yours as well, Commander. She is listed as representing the Betazed government at the conference.

LWAXANA: I am be serving a Betazoid dinner of greeting tonight, Captain. It is an ambassadorial function.
PICARD: It sounds delightful.

PICARD: Gentlemen. I think we must not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about someone who has been granted ambassadorial rank. Even though she may appear somewhat eccentric, Lwaxana Troi must be treated with the appropriate respect. Is that understood? Picard to Pulaski.

Half a Life

LWAXANA: Well, I am sure! I am a Betazoid ambassador. I'm a Daughter of the Fifth House, and those people are going to answer to me! So you just energise this damned thing and get me down there!



From DS9

The Forsaken

LWAXANA: Oh! Where is it? It's gone! It's gone!
BASHIR: What's gone, Madam Ambassador?
LWAXANA: My latinum hairbrooch.

SISKO: Lwaxana Troi the Ambassador?
ODO: That's her. There was a minor incident at the bar that I helped her with, and now she's grateful.



Fascination

ODO: Madame Ambassador.
LWAXANA: Oh, do we have to be so formal?

ODO: So, what brings you to the station.
LWAXANA: Officially I'm here as the Betazoid representative to the Gratitude Festival. But the truth is, I came to see you, you poor sweet tortured man.

It might be possible to play with the semantics from Fascination, but Manhunt is clear she represented Betazed. It's also clear she's an ambassador; however, it looks like she was appointed ambassador sometime after TNG's first season.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Betazed is already a member of the Federation, why would it need an ambassador to an organization it's already part of?

As for the planet's name, I always thought it was just a nickname given by the human explorers who first visited the planet. Seems just a bit convenient that it would have a name like "Betazed" (i.e. Beta-Zed) - probably the first Federation contact team that visited there, gave it a code designation which eventually became the Federation Standard name for the planet. Betazoids themselves may have a completely different name that they use.

Similar to Christopher's explanation for the Deltans:

Spoiler: DTI novels

They are actually from the planet 'Dhei' of the star 'Lta'. The first human explorers who visited that world, marked it in their star charts as 'Delta', as a convenient shorthand for 'Dhei-Lta'.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Betazed is already a member of the Federation, why would it need an ambassador to an organization it's already part of?

As for the planet's name, I always thought it was just a nickname given by the human explorers who first visited the planet. Seems just a bit convenient that it would have a name like "Betazed" (i.e. Beta-Zed) - probably the first Federation contact team that visited there, gave it a code designation which eventually became the Federation Standard name for the planet. Betazoids themselves may have a completely different name that they use.

Similar to Christopher's explanation for the Deltans:

Spoiler: DTI novels

They are actually from the planet 'Dhei' of the star 'Lta'. The first human explorers who visited that world, marked it in their star charts as 'Delta', as a convenient shorthand for 'Dhei-Lta'.

My theory is Ambassador is a left over from the Coalition days. Apparently planetary representatives in the Federation government are called "ambassador" as are the UFP's diplomatic envoys.

 

[Trekker4747]

I always took all of her little things she raved about as mostly being more ceremonial than any asterisk to any nobility or royalty she had. The most notable thing she was, was an Ambassador for Betazed to the Federation. With Betazed being a Federation Member, it's likely even *that* position held any real meaning unless it was her position to represent Betazed when contact was made with other species, as opposed to representatives or other elected officials having to do it.

Really, I think she talked a lot more game than she actually had.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Apparently planetary representatives in the Federation government are called "ambassador"

Federation Councillor, actually.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Apparently planetary representatives in the Federation government are called "ambassador"

Federation Councillor, actually.

Were they ever addressed as such?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At various times, Jonathn Archer (ENT) and Jaresh-Inyo (DS9) were, yes.

Besides, logically speaking, you can't have any kind of 'council' (Federation or otherwise) without the presence of Councillors to make up that council.

 

[Orphalesion]

Betazed is already a member of the Federation, why would it need an ambassador to an organization it's already part of?

As for the planet's name, I always thought it was just a nickname given by the human explorers who first visited the planet. Seems just a bit convenient that it would have a name like "Betazed" (i.e. Beta-Zed) - probably the first Federation contact team that visited there, gave it a code designation which eventually became the Federation Standard name for the planet. Betazoids themselves may have a completely different name that they use.

I always took it as being akin to a senator, as for why a planet might have multiple at the same time: the universe is huge, not even Lwaxana Troi or Sarek can be everywhere at once.

As for Betazed I agree with you, likely the star system had a designation in star charts containing "Beta-Zeta" which then among humans became Betazed. As to what the Betazoids call Betazed...well I don't think we ever learn on-screen what the Vulcans call Vulcan or what the Romulans call Romulus.

BTW I hate how Betazed is portrayed in a lot of the Novel verse, apparently according to one story Lwaxana keeps the "Sacred Chalice of Rixx" and the "Holy Rings of Betazed" in a dusty closet. Uhm...if they were historical/cultural artifacts of any importance, can't really see people keeping ancient artifacts in a household with children.

Lwaxana: Oh dear I have no clean coffee mugs left, well I suppose I can drink out of the chalice again...

 

[Nerys Myk]

At various times, Jonathn Archer (ENT) and Jaresh-Inyo (DS9) were, yes.

Besides, logically speaking, you can't have any kind of 'council' (Federation or otherwise) without the presence of Councillors to make up that council.

On screen?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I get the impression that the Trois are defunct nobility.

Kind of like being a Baron or a Duke in England now. You have a big important title but none of the power that hundreds of years ago accompanied the title.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At various times, Jonathn Archer (ENT) and Jaresh-Inyo (DS9) were, yes.

Besides, logically speaking, you can't have any kind of 'council' (Federation or otherwise) without the presence of Councillors to make up that council.

On screen?

Effectively, yes.

Like I just said: By definition, all Councils are made up of Councillors.

 

[Nerys Myk]

At various times, Jonathn Archer (ENT) and Jaresh-Inyo (DS9) were, yes.

Besides, logically speaking, you can't have any kind of 'council' (Federation or otherwise) without the presence of Councillors to make up that council.

On screen?

Effectively, yes.

Like I just said: By definition, all Councils are made up of Councillors.

Yes, they are. But was the term actually used?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It doesn't have to be.

(Although, Archer's bio in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does use the term. And I'm fairly sure Jaresh-Inyo is referred to as a former Councillor.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ It doesn't have to be.

(Although, Archer's bio in "In a Mirror, Darkly" does use the term. And I'm fairly sure Jaresh-Inyo is referred to as a former Councillor.)

The books might have referred to him at as such.

 

[Orphalesion]

The books are not strictly speaking canon... nothing said in the novel verse is necessarily true for the TV/Movie-verse.