Is TMP generally rated so low due to the romantic elements?

[Chrisisall]

Decker's aim was to join Ilia, whom he loved. But... if he loved her, why wasn't he WITH her?
Is this movie stating that true love can only be fully realized in a purely fictional setting?
Did peeps have a bad reaction to the film then & now because it glorifies a feeling based more in fantasy than reality? Who can love someone so much that they're willing to persue them into an unknown realm of existence, much less into the mens/womens department of Target or JC Penny's?

 

[FalTorPan]

The Decker/Ilia relationship was not a major aspect of the film.

 

[Chrisisall]

The Decker/Ilia relationship was not a major aspect of the film.

I guess I just had a major flaw in my personal character pointed out to me.
I'm a stupid sap.

Too much literature was devoted to this shit.

 

[number6]

The film had a bad reaction because it was a tepid retread of The Changeling, more attention was spent on long SFX sequences instead of a workable script, and the pacing was glacial.

 

[Chrisisall]

and the pacing was glacial.

That too.
For me, the importance of the film revolved around Spock's rediscovery of his 'family' and Decker's reunification with Ilia.
Emotional nonsense. Bad guys & phaser fire would have sufficed.
Love is for poets, not starship personnel.

 

[Lord Garth]

As much as I like TMP, I can't watch it in one sitting. That's fatal for a movie. When the average person gets up, they don't sit back down.

I remember in Star Trek Movie Memories when Harve Bennett recalled being asked if he'd seen TMP and then he thought to himself, "Oh shit! That's the movie where my kids who usually sit still through a whole movie kept asking "Can I go to the bathroom? Can I have a Coke?"

Before posters came out of the woodwork on TrekBBS in support of the film, I thought I was the only one who liked it. TMP was not well-regarded during the '80s and '90s mainly because it was considered slow, talky, and boring. That's what just about everyone I know thinks of TMP. Whenever my brother wants to get anyone hooked into the Star Trek movies, he starts with TWOK.

 

[Pauln6]

I love it but I do think it needed a landing party to head inside V'Ger while the remaining crew on the ship figured out the problem. It would have expanded the roles of the suporting crew and they could have seeded in some more action.

 

[Therin of Andor]

if he loved her, why wasn't he WITH her?

The Writers' Bible for "ST Phase II" and the novelization of ST:TMP explain that when a human male is in a sexual relationship with a Deltan female he becomes enslaved to her due to her pheromones. That's why Ilia tells Kirk she has taken the mandatory Oath of Celibacy in order to work amongst humans. Will Decker was still a Starfleet career officer. To stay on Delta IV as Ilia's mate would have robbed him of that career path.

ST:TNG took that idea and tweaked it with the Imzadis, Betazoid Deanna Troi and human Will Riker. Watch their first scenes together in "Encounter at Farpoint".

 

[Smiley]

TMP's low ratings from many people come from the amount of time crew members stare at a viewscreen in awe and the amount of gratuitous ship footage. The core story and visuals are fantastic, but it needed much tighter editing. Pacing is my #1 issue with the movie.

 

[RandyS]

TMP's low ratings from many people come from the amount of time crew members stare at a viewscreen in awe and the amount of gratuitous ship footage. The core story and visuals are fantastic, but it needed much tighter editing. Pacing is my #1 issue with the movie.

Agreed. The first hour or so of the film is okay, but when the Enterprise gets trapped inside VGER, the whole movie falls flat.

What I really disliked about the DVD, was they cut out most of the character moments and moved them to the two deleted scenes sections. Those should have stayed, and the endless ride through VGER is what should have been in the deleted scenes.

Oh well, at least I can still watch the parts of the movie that I like.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Decker's choosing of Ilia and the sacrifice of his earthly life was the only remotely interesting thing in TMP IMHO. But it wasn't enough

Who can love someone so much that they're willing to persue them into an unknown realm of existence, much less into the mens/womens department of Target or JC Penny's?

I think you would have to be at heart an explorer AND deeply dissatisfied with your own earthly existence.

 

[Balrog]

TMP is rated low because for a motion picture, it was rather motionless.

 

[sonak]

Number 6 put it best.


This movie is SLOOOOW, Spock acts like a jerk for most of it, and much of the plot consists of watching the characters watch special effects on a viewscreen.


However, the music is outstanding.

 

[KarmicCurse]

I think an edit that cuts it down to no more than 1:40 would make for a suspenseful, taught film. While I appreciate the cinematic benefit of a slow pace, there's just not enough story there to stretch it to its approximate 2:15. It would be fun to do it myself if I had the tech savvy.

But the deleted line with "...or a crew of a thousand ten miles high" should have stayed!

 

[Ghrakh]

well, 2001 showed how glacial pacing could be riveting, but that didn't quite work out for STTMP.

 

[number6]

well, 2001 showed how glacial pacing could be riveting, but that didn't quite work out for STTMP.

Some of it did, but it just didn't feel like what Star Trek was about. It needed to have a little more plot.

 

[Pauln6]

I still find it riveting! But I admit, I would have liked more character moments and a bit of action would not have hurt. Because the TMP special effects, while still impressive, are no longer state of the art or that unusual, this is where they need to trim things down (I still remember my brother fast forwarding the Enterprise flyby as a kid - even at 3x speed that's a long scene!).

I'm not a big fan of landing parties that consist of just the big three (or two plus one other) as I prefer interplay with some of the supporting characters too. From NuTrek it looks like they may be willing to give each of the supporting cast their moment. I think in the TMP director's edit didn't they remove Uhura, Sulu, and Chapel's (brief) character moments? I'd rather watch a longer version with those moments left in.

 

[Orcus]

I've always liked TMP myself too. However, that could be nostalgia kicking in from a time where it was the only new Trek for some time...

 

[Pauln6]

It could also have something to do with all the merchandise at the time: Weetabix character cards, posters, action figures - we'd never had it so good! I was disappointed that they only made a few of the crew though - I wanted an Uhura action figure... ooh or a Rand Weetabix card! We spent a lot of time swapping those cards at school.

 

[RookieBatman]

I'm not gonna bother trying to defend TMP; I'm just gonna accept that my taste is different from most people's. But I love it! Earlier this year, I watched the SLV on a Saturday, got cracking on the novelization, and finished that in time to watch the DE on the next Saturday. And I was riveted the whole time, never bored for a second. Even with good movies, I'm usually glancing at the clock now and then, but with these, I was loving every minute of it.

So call me crazy, I did think it felt like Star Trek. It had some great character moments, and they did really get to explore something strange and new. I don't even hate the costumes. It's a shame it wasn't popular, and I think with a little more attention paid to the script, a contemplative work like that could've been a lot more successful. But even for all its failures, it's my kind of Star Trek.