Is TMP generally rated so low due to the romantic elements?
- Thread starter Chrisisall
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According to the novel, she was actually his wife, Vice Admiral Lori Ciana. Their relationship was further developed in The Lost Years and A Flag Full of Stars, but based on just the onscreen evidence, I can't see how that could've been his wife unless he had absolutely no feelings for her at that point. He didn't even blink.
Yeah, I do think that anyone with a deep passion for exploring the unknown would probably at least give strong consideration to an opportunity like that. He probably got immortality in the bargain (at least, of a type).
Yep, that's constructive.
Well, yeah, the relationship isn't indicated in the script so Robert Wise was totally oblivious to any connection, but it was one of the elaborations added by GR to his novelization because "In Thy Image" had had a very similar character, Alexandra.
Lori Ciana and Kirk had only had a one-year marriage agreement and, during that time, Kirk discovers that Admiral Nogura had essentially forced them together so that Ciana could keep an eye on Kirk for the Admiral.
Similarly, Will Decker's (and his mother's) connection to the New Human Movement (and the possibilities offered by such lofty goals as developing shared consciousness?) is presented only in the novelization. It may have been developed had "ST Phase II" gone to series, because Decker was intended to return in the next episode, even though both TMP and "In Thy Image" had ended with his disappearance. Again, those of us who read the book first didn't come away from TMP as mystified about all the plot dead ends.
As a 19 year old (who had not read the novelization first) walking out of the theatre, my only THREE issues with the movie were:
1) No phasers? Not even once?
2) Where did the deflector dish go??
3) Someone graffitied the railing on the Bridge BLACK!!!
Other than that, I was stoked!!!
Decker's aim was to join Ilia, whom he loved. But... if he loved her, why wasn't he WITH her?
Is this movie stating that true love can only be fully realized in a purely fictional setting?
Did peeps have a bad reaction to the film then & now because it glorifies a feeling based more in fantasy than reality? Who can love someone so much that they're willing to persue them into an unknown realm of existence, much less into the mens/womens department of Target or JC Penny's?
No I don't think that's it...however, its telling that some people's reactions in this thread are that the relationship of Decker and Ilia are not important...when in fact, their evolution to a new lifeform is the payff to the movie!!!! Now look at the way STNG's "Tin Man" is constructed...its essentially a similar story...huge sentient machine has emotional/self discovery problems....a psi-powered humanoid is the key to it all...in Tin Man's sense, an outside character was allowed to be used to really make the story complete, its integral to the plot...in STTMP it really should be SPOCK that is evolved but of course, no one wants to lose such a major character...so the payoff winds up being weakened since we haven't had as much invested in the Decker/Ilia characters.
RAMA
Yep.
He loved her so much that he was willing to go into the unknown to join with her.
*snif*
Sorry, getting misty here. I need an actual tissue when I watch the flick.
You say that like it's a BAD thing.....
Actually Kirk's: "Oh my God!" his stunned look and pause before contacting Starfleet showed his feelings pretty well.
Actually she was more of a surrogate Enterprise. She was the "woman" Nogura needed to keep Kirk Earth-bound.
The problem with this movie was that it had a long and increasingly intense buildup. The focal climax was not worthy of such a buildup. When Kirk and crew finally see their nemesis... they find a broken down piece of space junk at the core. The questions of how it received an Artificial Intelligence are not answered and where it's been remains a mystery far into the future. Another problem is how the movie ends so quickly afterwards. One minute they board the Ent and the next they are in orbit over Earth. How did they escape V'ger? It's as if the writers just shut down from shear exhaustion. Cobra
I just attributed that to him being upset about any two people dying in such a gruesome fashion.
sure, I get that Decker really loves Ilia, but to me the end of the movie where he joins with V'ger is more about him wanting to undertake an amazing journey than him wanting to join with Ilia.
What's the mystery? The tiny Enterprise is taken inside the massive V'ger vessel, which is still hastening to Earth. As it approaches Earth, it sends out devices to deactivate Earth defenses and prepares to digitize all life on the planet. At the end of the movie, the whole of V'ger, all of its collected data, plus Decker and the Ilia Probe, dissolve into digitized information and dissipate into another dimension, presumably creating a new life form... and leaving the Enterprise behind, now in Earth orbit.
TMP is the most dated of the Trek movies for me. It belongs to the pre-Star Wars era of blockbusters. Hell, pre-Jaws. I get vibes of 'The Andromeda Strain' whilst watching it because of Wise and his style. It is immaculately presented, yes, but when comparing it to Empire Strikes Back which came only a few months after I think the way it was written, shot, edited, produced & directed dates it horribly. Some of the sets and definitely the uniforms also date the movie for me. Engineering has never looked better since though.
Then we have the issue of pacing, its cerebral nature, the long, long, long FX sequences that are only bearable thanks to Goldsmith. The movie belongs to the early 70s rather than 1980.
I guess what I am trying to say is that even in 1979 this movie was already obsolete!
Romantic elements? No.
Then we have the issue of pacing, its cerebral nature, the long, long, long FX sequences that are only bearable thanks to Goldsmith. The movie belongs to the early 70s rather than 1980.
I guess what I am trying to say is that even in 1979 this movie was already obsolete!
Romantic elements? No.
The Director's Edition does try to rectify that, and at some points it works.
My only problem with the Directors Edition is that they deleted a couple of character scenes that I would have liked left in - literally a just a couple of minutes here and there. Apart from that it was good, although if I'm honest, I quite like watching the really long version they did for TV as well.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
One thing that I've noticed is this movie is better the 2nd time. The first time you're sort of surprised at how inactive the movie is.
The next viewing has you already aware that your heart won't be racing but you will be intrigued and amazed by the spectacle of the goliath V'ger. That's why you can find so many fans that can enjoy it quite a lot.
The next viewing has you already aware that your heart won't be racing but you will be intrigued and amazed by the spectacle of the goliath V'ger. That's why you can find so many fans that can enjoy it quite a lot.
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