Is this anyway to treat an Admiral...

[2 of 10]

Just finished watching "Generations" and the way that Jean-Luc "buried" on of StarFleets Best. Under a pile of rocks, so
eventually they would fall off and he would probably be eaten by the vermin on Vidian.

Surly, there must be some kind of protocal when dealing with the death of a Star Fleet legend, but under a pile of rocks seems just a bit undignfied, even for an ensign, must less a legend. Any thoughts ????

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I always assumed that Kirk's body would be relocated to some grand memorial back on Earth once the Federation rescue ships arrived. I did not take the rock pile to be Kirk's final resting place (although I think some TrekLit states otherwise....). In the meantime -in a landscape that seemed to be rubble and boulders scattered across a surface of solid rock- the best way to keep a body from being dragged away and gnawed on by larger scavengers was to cover it with rocks. I believe the pile of rocks was also a nod to how ancient Earth cultures living in barren landscapes "buried" their dead.

Besides, unless you can seal the body up in a decent coffin or a big Tupperware container, smaller vermin are going to get to a body, whether it is eaten above ground or burrowed to underground!

I do agree, however- I did think it was a little odd when I first saw the scene, but then I thought, "Well- what else are you gonna do?"

 

[Timo]

To be sure, it doesn't sound possible at all that Kirk would have been under that pile of rocks to begin with.

Kirk dies by falling down a tall cliff - and the editing of that fall makes the cliff twice as tall as the real thing. He ends up a bloody mess in the middle of twisted metal. Would it be possible for Picard to haul Kirk's corpse all the way back up, along a route that for the most part consists of sheer rock and near-vertical metal ladders? Perhaps, if Picard were a muscular fireman in his early twenties, and had the entire day for the job. But even in that case, he would end up being covered in Kirk's blood and body parts.

So Picard really would have no means to get Kirk's body up there - and no particular reason to do so, either. OTOH, Picard himself would have every incentive to climb the hill and wait for rescue at the highest possible location, in the middle of Soran's distinct artifacts that could be spotted from the air. After having done so, he could well spend the idle hours piling a few rocks into a memorial cairn and then placing Kirk's badge on top of that cairn.

Which, BTW, is way too small to hide Kirk's body, even if we count the depression in the rock below. So we'd have to assume Fireman Picard also hacked Kirk's corpse to smaller pieces in order to make it fit, with tools he didn't have.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/generations/ch15/gen1074.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Peach Wookiee]

There's also the nagging issue of the Prime Directive. You can't just leave a body of one of your heroes there when on the planet next door is a different species that will be affected in about 200 years by finding his corpse.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What happened to Kirk's body in the Shatnerverse novels? It was stolen or something like that, wasn't it?

 

[Timo]

There's also the nagging issue of the Prime Directive. You can't just leave a body of one of your heroes there when on the planet next door is a different species that will be affected in about 200 years by finding his corpse.

The odds of anybody finding it before scavengers got to it and made it unrecognizable would be about zero - assuming Soran's artifacts were cleaned up first, so that no immediate attention would be drawn to the site. But if Soran's hardware was indeed mopped up, there'd be no good reason not to remove Kirk's body, too.

OTOH, why bother mopping up? The Veridianites are going to find out about space aliens eventually anyway, probably very, very soon after discovering spaceflight. Discovery of the remains is hardly comparable to a deliberate UFP attempt at influencing Veridianianianian development.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vance]

What happened to Kirk's body in the Shatnerverse novels? It was stolen or something like that, wasn't it?

I admit that I liked the comic's answer. Once the events of Generations is over, Picard has it beamed into its final resting place in a Federation graveyard (think Arlington) with honors. (The story is really about Spock, sneaking across the Neutral Zone to be there.)

 

[Unicron]

Pffft. Everyone knows that Kirk's body disappeared into the Force after his death, just off camera.

 

[ALF]

...and he would probably be eaten by the vermin on Vidian.

Unlike most standard coffin burials, in which the body stays intact forever?

 

[Kirby]

Aside from Kirk's body there was also the little problem of the giant Enterprise saucer on the planet. Someone's gonna have to come and clean all that up.

 

[Ghrakh]

Yep, Generations left a lot of mess to be cleaned up.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

 

[Maurice]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

Wow! I haven't seen you on in AGES!

 

[Alrik]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

Not likely, and if it was, it was Kirks violation, not Picard's. Kirk went with Picard to that specific place and time of his own free will. Once he learned he could leave the Nexus, he could have just as easily chosen to reappear on the B moments after he left and live out his days in his own time in retirement. Two problems with that though. One, it would have altered the timeline Picard knew (Kirk had been lost saving the B). Two, Kirk wanted to make a difference again. After considering his options, he figured helping Picard stop Soran was the more appealing choice.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the giant Enterprise saucer on the planet. Someone's gonna have to come and clean all that up.

Did any novels ever touch on that point?

 

[BillJ]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

Not likely, and if it was, it was Kirks violation, not Picard's.

It's just as much Picard's violation as it is Kirk's. Kirk doesn't leave the Nexus without Picard's involvement. Picard set the events in motion, encouraging Kirk to leave.

 

[-Brett-]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

"Temporal Prime Directive" was a Voyager invention. Voyager hadn't aired yet when Generations was released.

They couldn't very well have violated a rule that didn't exist yet.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Of course it's a violation; they changed the events of the timeline after the fact, which is exactly what the Temporal Prime Directive and all related regulations we've heard about say you're not allowed to do. There's no special exemption if you fail to stop a madman from blowing up a a star system and your crashed starship.

And it would seem to me Picard is more culpable than Kirk because (a) the whole thing was his idea, (b) he understood what had happened, what the Nexus was and how it worked, etc., whereas Kirk did not, and (c) from Kirk's perspective the events that they were changing hadn't happened yet.

I think the true fate of Kirk and the nature of their brief joint venture are things no one but Picard has any knowledge of and he'd keep it a secret. Maybe he'd share it with Guinan or something like that, but it ain't goin' in the history books.

"Temporal Prime Directive" was a Voyager invention. Voyager hadn't aired yet when Generations was released.

They couldn't very well have violated a rule that didn't exist yet.

It was shown on VGR to be in effect in the same year (2371) that the film took place, but rather than quibbling about that, suffice it to say that whatever name you want to call it by (and there have been other regulations variously cited regarding time travel as well on other series as per link above) the point is that Starfleet captains are not supposed to alter history nor allow it to be altered.

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

Wow! I haven't seen you on in AGES!

I still pass through these parts from time to time.

-MMoM

 

[Alrik]

I assumed that no one could know anything about Kirk's being alive or there. The whole incident was a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, wasn't it?

Not likely, and if it was, it was Kirks violation, not Picard's.

It's just as much Picard's violation as it is Kirk's. Kirk doesn't leave the Nexus without Picard's involvement. Picard set the events in motion, encouraging Kirk to leave.

To quote my favorite Canadian Trio, Rush, "I will choose free will".
Kirk ultamately made the choice. Sure Picard started the ball rolling, but once Kirk realized IT'S FAAAAAKE, he chose to make a difference again.

 

[BillJ]

Not likely, and if it was, it was Kirks violation, not Picard's.

It's just as much Picard's violation as it is Kirk's. Kirk doesn't leave the Nexus without Picard's involvement. Picard set the events in motion, encouraging Kirk to leave.

To quote my favorite Canadian Trio, Rush, "I will choose free will".
Kirk ultamately made the choice. Sure Picard started the ball rolling, but once Kirk realized IT'S FAAAAAKE, he chose to make a difference again.

I'm not absolving Kirk of the crime, but I think Picard is just as guilty where the "Temporal Prime Directive" is concerned.

Besides, wasn't Picard going back to Veridian III either way?