Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax)

[FalTorPan]

Joel Hodgson's Cinematic Titanic and Mike Nelson's RiffTrax are obviously cut from the same MST3K-inspired cloth. I'm wondering if there might be bad blood between the two of them. Does anyone know?

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Aren't these two completely different things?

Mike is focusing on mainstream movies whereas Joel is sticking the B-movie stuff. I don't see how there's any competition at all between the two, nor do I see anything that indicates that they have a rivalry going on. Heck, it seems like they actually sat down and decided to go both ways as, in all likelihood, MST3K is the only thing they'll ever be famous for. So they might as well both try to make as much off it as they could.

And if there was a rivalry between the two, I doubt many of the same people would be working on both -- which they are. Trace Beaulieu and J. Elvis Weinstein being the most notable examples.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

^I wasn't aware that Trace Beaulieu or J. Elvis Weinstein had worked on any "Rifftrax." The only performer I recall crossing over between the 2 projects is Mary Jo Pehl. (In addition to her regular "Cinematic Titanic" work, she also did the "Rifftrax" for Glitter with Mike Nelson.)

I sometimes get the sense that there is, if not bad blood, at least an irreconcilable difference in their working personalities that keeps Joel & Mike from reuniting. Mike strikes me as a very driven type-A personality who constantly puts himself in control of situations. Joel has that much more laid back Midwestern thing going on. Also, Mike's brand of riffing is much more viscious than Joel's. (Take for example the merciless insults heaped upon the leading man in "Time Chasers." I can't imagine that occuring under Joel's tenure.)

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

This might be telling:

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Rifftrax & The Film Crew (Score:5, Interesting) by eldavojohn (898314)
What do you think about the other efforts led by Mike Nelson like Rifftrax & The Film Crew? Is there a reason that you, Pearl, TV's Frank & Dr. Forester have split from Mike, Brain Guy & Tom Servo? I'm overjoyed that there are multiple efforts but why?


Question Unsurprisingly Left Unanswered.

 

[Canadave]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

I sometimes get the sense that there is, if not bad blood, at least an irreconcilable difference in their working personalities that keeps Joel & Mike from reuniting. Mike strikes me as a very driven type-A personality who constantly puts himself in control of situations. Joel has that much more laid back Midwestern thing going on. Also, Mike's brand of riffing is much more viscious than Joel's. (Take for example the merciless insults heaped upon the leading man in "Time Chasers." I can't imagine that occuring under Joel's tenure.)

Which is why I prefer Mike's riffing. I don't want to hear someone good-naturedly ribbing a bad movie, I want to hear it get torn apart! Joel's still good, but he doesn't crack me up the way Mike does.

More on topic, there was an open letter from Bill Corbett posted on the Rifftrax forum inviting them to join them on a riff. So it looks like—on their side, at least—they're open to working with "the other team".

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

A very telling quote from that Joel Hodgson Q&A:

No, I loved working on the show -- I created it. It was the perfect job. I left the show because I was not getting along with my partner in the venture. After the fifth season, he and I were on the verge of a fight that I think would have threatened the survival of the show. I decided to step down, which was a bit of a personal tragedy for me. I created the appearance to the press that I had other plans, but I didn't. It was all to keep the thing alive. On the bright side, it worked-- the show lived on. On the downside, I felt like an important part of my creative life was cut short -- but now I'm working on fixing that, by getting everyone back together in the form of Cinematic Titanic.

Very candid. Moreso than I've ever heard before. Now I suppose the only question would be which partner he was referring to, Mike Nelson or Jim Mallon?

 

[Canadave]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

^ Hasn't Joel basically confirmed that it was Mallon and not Mike?

Even so, it does often seem like there is something of a rivalry between them... they rarely seem to acknowledge each other except in passing.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

^Yeah, even when they share the screen, like in "Soultaker."

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Hasn't Joel basically confirmed that it was Mallon and not Mike?

I hadn't heard that. What was the source of the conflict between Joel & Jim Mallon?

 

[gastrof]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Should we understand at this point that Joel's leaving Mistee "because he wanted to do other things" wasn't the whole story?

 

[Canadave]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Hasn't Joel basically confirmed that it was Mallon and not Mike?

I hadn't heard that. What was the source of the conflict between Joel & Jim Mallon?

I'm not sure. There's a quote from him on his wiki page from a radio show he did in 2008, though:

"I was like totally happy at Mystery Science Theater. I loved it. I wanted to stay, but I was basically having a fight with my partner, Jim Mallon. So we weren't getting along and so I just felt like -- I thought it really could possibly jeopardize the show. It would have been easy to create factions out of the group. And by that time it would not have been a fun show to work on. And so, I felt like I saw it coming and I just thought [leaving] was the best thing at the time."

So maybe Mike was, on some level, on the same "side" as Mallon? That might explain things to some degree. That's pure speculation, of course, though.

 

[SinglePurpose]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

^IIRC, Joel was the one that wanted Mike to take over the hosting duties once he left.

 

[Cutter John]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

This is an interesting thread. I'd often wondered the same thing myself, and if there was every a hope for any kind of a cast reunion.

 

[Canadave]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

^IIRC, Joel was the one that wanted Mike to take over the hosting duties once he left.

That's true. Good point.

 

[Gepard]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

This is an interesting thread. I'd often wondered the same thing myself, and if there was every a hope for any kind of a cast reunion.

According to MST3Kinfo.com, Joel was interested in doing a 20th anniversary reunion special, but Jim Mallon, who holds all the rights to the Best Brains characters and situations, wouldn't allow it. So, yeah...

 

[Cutter John]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Sooooo Jim's kind of a dick then?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Sooooo Jim's kind of a dick then?

Richard Basehart?!

Oh.

I don't think there's any "bad blood" between Mike and Joel, nothing I've seen suggests this. Most of it seems preceived like the "bad blood" between Shatner and Stewart. I mean, Joel and Mike are pretty much a Kirk and Picard type of situation.

Joel wanted Mike to replace him which suggests that the two had a good working relationship when Joel left and if there was any "bad blood" between them it's doubtful Joel would've made an apperance in "Soultaker", let-alone share screentime with Mike. I just wish both went into the theater at the same time, that would've been great.

 

[Gepard]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

Sooooo Jim's kind of a dick then?

From what I've heard, the issue of Jim's dickishness or lack therof, and his relative culpability in Joel's departure, has been the subject of flamewars on MiSTie message boards. It sounds like a sensitive subject. That said, as they say--where there's smoke there's fire.

 

[TemporalFlux]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

The Wiki entry for Jim Mallon has a link to this interview with Joel:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/joel-hodgson,13595/

O: Would you appear in any of these things, or are you more interested in staying behind the camera?

JH: Umm... Yeah. That's always been really confusing for people. I did it on Mystery Science Theater just because I was the logical guy to do it. I'd been on Letterman and Saturday Night Live, but I'd really stopped performing. And so I was kind of reluctant, but I knew I would be the easiest sell in the event that somebody wanted to pick up the show. But once it got so popular and the movie was on the horizon, I started to go, "You know, I just don't... I don't really... I didn't really have that in mind, to be a movie actor." 'Cause, if you notice, I'm not really an actor. I just do this guy. Like, even when I went back and did the season opener on the Sci-Fi channel last weekend [April 11], people were going, "You looked kind of uncomfortable." And I was. I never had to act with another person. I was on the set with Mike [Nelson], and I was going, "I've never done this with another person in the room. It's only been robots." There was never anybody else in there. I can't really do it. I don't think I'm an actor. That's really not what I want to do. I don't think I could be on camera.

...

O: Was it the movie that made you leave?

JH: The big thing is that Jim Mallon and I were kind of fighting over creative control of the show. And it just got too hard. You can't really be fighting with someone and doing all the stuff you have to do. I think what made the show work for me was that I really loved it. I really liked the audience, and the whole process was... I was really happy doing it, and I realized that I'd turn into Jerry Lewis or something if I started to kind of hate it. And that was starting to happen, just because of these conflicts I was having internally with Jim. I had a pretty good deal set up, so if I left, it would be okay. If Jim wanted to run the show his way and it succeeded, I would make money on it. And if it didn't work, that would be okay, too. It was just kind of the way to do it. The thing would have blown up if we both would have stayed there. I like to look at it like the story of King Solomon, when the baby was brought before him. (Laughs.)

O: They had a pretty good run after they left.

JH: Yeah, absolutely.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Is There Bad Blood Between Joel & Mike (Cinematic Titanic/RiffTrax

I wonder what they possibly could've been arguing over as far as creative-control/directions on the show?

It's not like there was a ton of complexity to a puppet-show mocking bad movies.