Is there anyone who doesn't like Seven??
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I must be honest and admit that she's my least favorite among the main characters of Voyager.
There was a time I really loathed the character but during the years I've changed that into acceptance. Years of arguing and debating with some Seven fans has made me realize that the character has a lot of qualities, otherwise so many fans wouldn't like her.
My reasons for not being so fond of Seven were and are the following:
Kes was kicked out to make room for her. I have to admit that it was the main reason for my dislike.
She more and less took over the show.
The catsuit was a too obvious way to use the "sex factor" as a way to sell the show.
The marketing of the character in Trek magazines and interviews. It was impossible to buy a Trek magazine without interviews with Ryan, at least one article with photos of the character and the usual poster.
The constant ranting from the producers about "Seven saving the show" and the praising of the "changes in season 4".
All that created a certain dislike which was hard to overcome. However, as I've written before, I've learned to understand why so many people like the character (and no, this has nothing to do with the "sexy" appeal but the character herself as an interesting character and Ryan's splendid acting). I've accepted the character as a very important part of the Voyager story and she actually shows up in some of my stories too!
Unfortunately, she remains my least favorite among the main characters but that's more because the others are so incredible good!
There was a time I really loathed the character but during the years I've changed that into acceptance. Years of arguing and debating with some Seven fans has made me realize that the character has a lot of qualities, otherwise so many fans wouldn't like her.
My reasons for not being so fond of Seven were and are the following:
Kes was kicked out to make room for her. I have to admit that it was the main reason for my dislike.
She more and less took over the show.
The catsuit was a too obvious way to use the "sex factor" as a way to sell the show.
The marketing of the character in Trek magazines and interviews. It was impossible to buy a Trek magazine without interviews with Ryan, at least one article with photos of the character and the usual poster.
The constant ranting from the producers about "Seven saving the show" and the praising of the "changes in season 4".
All that created a certain dislike which was hard to overcome. However, as I've written before, I've learned to understand why so many people like the character (and no, this has nothing to do with the "sexy" appeal but the character herself as an interesting character and Ryan's splendid acting). I've accepted the character as a very important part of the Voyager story and she actually shows up in some of my stories too!
Unfortunately, she remains my least favorite among the main characters but that's more because the others are so incredible good!
@Lynx you like Harry Kim, Tom Paris and Chakotay more than Seven? I find all of them annoying while I've always liked Seven.
I agree. She grew on me and then I got a sour taste in my mouth after human error because I knew where it was going to go from there. That whole situation really annoyed me and it took a while for me to except it. Fanfic really helped
I like her from season 4 to season 6, although the overuse of the character irked me a bit. And when she suddenly became an expert of human nature (kinda like Data was in TNG) on season seven, I got frustrated with her. And her thing with Chakotay didn't make her character any better for me either. In fact - their relationship made both characters (for me) worse.
Yeah, whats so wrong with that?
Tom Paris most definatly better than Seven. My favorite Voyager character is actually the Doc though... after Suder was killed that is.
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This is perhaps the most amazing inconsistency for me. In "Nightingale," Seven was actually lecturing Harry Kim on command styles and interpersonal relationships. Really? I don't think so.
..but think about it, Harry was never Borg but he still sucked when it came to simple interaction with people. Harry was supposed to be engaged yet he acted like he never had any experance even talking to a woman. So at that point, yeah Harry was more a misfit than Seven was. Not to mention, Harry worked the night shift as command. Yet when it came time to show what he'd learned from doing so, he couldn't.
This is perhaps the most amazing inconsistency for me. In "Nightingale," Seven was actually lecturing Harry Kim on command styles and interpersonal relationships. Really? I don't think so.
I think the point was, Harry should be embarrassed that he had to get such advice from Seven.
I liked her sometimes, other times she was annoying. Then again, that's how I feel about most of the characters on VOY.
I didn't care much for the catsuits, I actually think they're rather unattractive. And I can't think of any in-universe explanations as to why she wore them instead of something 'normal.'
I didn't care much for the catsuits, I actually think they're rather unattractive. And I can't think of any in-universe explanations as to why she wore them instead of something 'normal.'
Yeah, whats so wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with it, it just surprises me. When I watch Voyager with my family/friends we have similar opinions about the characters so maybe I'm just not used to someone liking Tom Paris or disliking Seven. Guess goes to show everyone's different. I wonder who is the most consistently liked character.
I didn't think anybody disliked Tom Paris.Yeah, whats so wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with it, it just surprises me. When I watch Voyager with my family/friends we have similar opinions about the characters so maybe I'm just not used to someone liking Tom Paris or disliking Seven. Guess goes to show everyone's different. I wonder who is the most consistently liked character.
I always saw him as "Joe Every Man".
Like, everybody knows someone or is like Tom Paris.
I find him identifiable .
Why I admire the character greatly.
I can't say I know anybody like Picard, too his degree.
While I like him, I also find him kinda cold.
Sort of.
TV executives rarely think with their hormones, but they do think with their wallets. Viewers are what brings in advertiser dollars, and certain demographics are worth more than others. If one of the actors or characters on a show brings in more viewers, or viewers from a more desirable demographic, the executives will push to give that character or actor more time on-screen.
Jeri Ryan brought in viewers.
There are things the writers can use to push back on the executives when that kind of thing happens. For instance, they can argue that the actor in question is so terrible that giving them more screen time will actually drive away viewers.
Jeri Ryan isn't terrible. She's actually pretty good.
Another is if the character is problematic. For instance, the writers for TNG called Troi "The Destroyer of Plots" because her empathic powers could short-circuit what was supposed to be a surprise or mystery, so they often had to figure out how to keep her away from the story.
Seven of Nine didn't have those kinds of plot destroying powers.
So it was very hard to argue against giving Seven more time on-screen.
I have seen interviews where the writers from Voyager pointed out some problems they had along the way, like that Chakotay and Tuvok were essentially the same character (reserved, spiritual, etc), so they were drawing from the same group of episodes. You could fairly easilly make a Tuvok episode into a Chakotay episode, but neither of them could be given a Neelix episode easily.
Seven of Nine became the character who could easilly substitute for virtually any other character on the show. She was exploring her humanity, like the doctor. She knew a lot about engineering, so you could rewrite a part for Torres to be Seven, like Tuvok she was unemotional and good at combat, .... So she's someone you want to have in as many episodes as possible, and it is really easy to rewrite almost any episode for her. It is kind of inevitable that she'll be the center of most of the episodes, and the show will become "The Seven of Nine Show, also featuring the crew of USS Voyager."
"You're too good" seems like a stupid reason to fire an actor, but there it is. The only way Jeri Ryan works in an ensemble cast is if the other actors are all big draws to a valuable demographic, so the producers want them all to get roughly equal time.
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There was a great editorial in ... Maxim or Stuff, I'm pretty sure, though maybe in FHM. One of those no-nudity men's magazines, which makes the observation additionally ironic, about the blatant use of sex in advertising. The author said he didn't know which he found more insulting: that ad executives think that sticking a bikini-clad babe in their ad for car wax or whatever will make men want to buy it, or that it works.
Yes, Star Trek is supposed to be better than that. But I don't think it ever actually has been better than that. I doubt Counselor Troi got put in a catsuit without somebody thinking "that ought to lure in teenage males".
I think Yeoman Rand and Uhura and Nurse Chapel were there for similar reasons. It doesn't have to be a bad thing.
The problem is when the boy-bait winds up taking over the show.
Seven's Boobs: Do the objectors to her boobs object to well endowed women wearing clothes that reveal them IRL? Because some people DO have big boobs and they don't feel like walking around in a poncho just in case someone objects to their boobs being visibly outlined by their clothing. Seven just happens to be a woman with big boobs who used to be a Borg. I suspect she finds the catsuit comfortable and efficient and would not consider someone else's objections to it to be her problem.
Can only small breasted not very attractive women wear catsuits?
Can only small breasted not very attractive women wear catsuits?
I didn't think anybody disliked Tom Paris.
I always saw him as "Joe Every Man".
Like, everybody knows someone or is like Tom Paris.
I find him identifiable .
Why I admire the character greatly.
I can't say I know anybody like Picard, too his degree.
While I like him, I also find him kinda cold.
To me Tom Paris seems like he would have been a bully in school. He's friends with Harry Kim because he can boss him about all the time. He was really flakey in regard to the Marqui, he joined them when he had to leave Starfleet then joined Voyager to help catch them once he'd been caught. He's cocky and I find it annoying. The Doctor is cocky too but in a funny way. He also made fair haven, which is reason enough to dislike him.
I don't identify with Tom Paris but I can't think of any Voyager character I'm really like. There are just certain aspects of some characters that I can relate to.
I personnally couldnt stand Tom Paris.
As a well endowed women as far as chest are concerned, it has nothing to do with Boobs with Sevens outfit. It just wouldnt have been allowed. Your out in the Delta Quadrant, with a majority male crew, and shes dressed like that. Who are they kidding!
Im afraid the sex issues is deliberately toned down in most establishments of that sort, and a quick word would have been given to her to be less obvious in her clothes. If she had continued the women would have soon sorted her out. Its just not done.
They would have had to put the crew on Bromide.
The character of Seven would have stood on its own, without the cat suit. Im afriad it is another reflection of the USA screen writers doing the sex thing to sell ratings instead of superior plots.
As a well endowed women as far as chest are concerned, it has nothing to do with Boobs with Sevens outfit. It just wouldnt have been allowed. Your out in the Delta Quadrant, with a majority male crew, and shes dressed like that. Who are they kidding!
Im afraid the sex issues is deliberately toned down in most establishments of that sort, and a quick word would have been given to her to be less obvious in her clothes. If she had continued the women would have soon sorted her out. Its just not done.
They would have had to put the crew on Bromide.
The character of Seven would have stood on its own, without the cat suit. Im afriad it is another reflection of the USA screen writers doing the sex thing to sell ratings instead of superior plots.
Bully?I didn't think anybody disliked Tom Paris.
I always saw him as "Joe Every Man".
Like, everybody knows someone or is like Tom Paris.
I find him identifiable .
Why I admire the character greatly.
I can't say I know anybody like Picard, too his degree.
While I like him, I also find him kinda cold.
To me Tom Paris seems like he would have been a bully in school. He's friends with Harry Kim because he can boss him about all the time. He was really flakey in regard to the Marqui, he joined them when he had to leave Starfleet then joined Voyager to help catch them once he'd been caught. He's cocky and I find it annoying. The Doctor is cocky too but in a funny way. He also made fair haven, which is reason enough to dislike him.
I don't identify with Tom Paris but I can't think of any Voyager character I'm really like. There are just certain aspects of some characters that I can relate to.
No way, Chakotay's tougher than him.
Plus in "The Chute", for someone that had been in prison Tom sure acted like a punk.
Tom's no bully, he's just a wise ass.
Now here's a lost opportunity. Chakotay and Tuvok were often at odds and they could have played that up - both trusted advisors to Janeway but often coming from different directions. "Basics" is one example of this.
Nearly every Federation civilian wore a body/catsuit, from Riker's father to Jake Sisko to adult Molly to Kes when she was getting older. It's common attire in the 24th century.
Besides, are we always told that woman can wear whatever they want and it doesn't give men the right to paw all over them. On Voyager were seeing that theory in action. It shows a sexy looking woman can also be respected by her peers. I have no doubt that if any woman here had Jeri Ryan's body, they'd be wearing clothes that would show it off and they'd still expect the same amount of respect about it too.
My humble opinions:
• I liked her character development (a rarity on Voyager)
• She had many memorable, funny lines
• I agree she became overused and almost a cliché
• I couldn't stand the way she looked, especially her skin-tight suits.
1. I'd think sexual attractiveness would be "irrelevant" to her.
2. It was an embarrassing and flagrant attempt to raise ratings by drawing in a certain type of viewer (and that type of viewer probably does not watch Star Trek).
3. It's hard to suspend disbelief when imagining a Starfleet vessel, headed by a female captain no less, would allow a crew member to dress like that while on duty.
4. It's extremely impractical, something that goes against Seven's ethos. Wearing high-heels and implants(?) would make almost every duty more difficult. (I guess augmentation because, as I understand human physiology, a woman with such a low bodyfat percentage would be unable to store what little bodyfat she has left in just two select areas—as bodyfat goes down, it usually goes down everywhere. Thus my conclusion that she employed some form of augmentation. And why would Seven do that?!). As an aside, it so happens I don't find her attractive at all—with apologies to Jeri Ryan.
She clearly was an integral defining element of the show from season four on. On balance, I suppose I'd have to say I'm glad she was added (with obvious caveats and misgivings).
(I write from a mobile device. Please excuse typos etc.)
• I liked her character development (a rarity on Voyager)
• She had many memorable, funny lines
• I agree she became overused and almost a cliché
• I couldn't stand the way she looked, especially her skin-tight suits.
1. I'd think sexual attractiveness would be "irrelevant" to her.
2. It was an embarrassing and flagrant attempt to raise ratings by drawing in a certain type of viewer (and that type of viewer probably does not watch Star Trek).
3. It's hard to suspend disbelief when imagining a Starfleet vessel, headed by a female captain no less, would allow a crew member to dress like that while on duty.
4. It's extremely impractical, something that goes against Seven's ethos. Wearing high-heels and implants(?) would make almost every duty more difficult. (I guess augmentation because, as I understand human physiology, a woman with such a low bodyfat percentage would be unable to store what little bodyfat she has left in just two select areas—as bodyfat goes down, it usually goes down everywhere. Thus my conclusion that she employed some form of augmentation. And why would Seven do that?!). As an aside, it so happens I don't find her attractive at all—with apologies to Jeri Ryan.
She clearly was an integral defining element of the show from season four on. On balance, I suppose I'd have to say I'm glad she was added (with obvious caveats and misgivings).
(I write from a mobile device. Please excuse typos etc.)
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