Is there a way to try and "learn to love" Nemesis?

[Danoz]

I've been thinking about how much I want to like this, but there's just too much that makes me cringe. I went back and watched it again... a few things I actually did like:

• The high speed land rover scene. I know a lot of people hated that, but I found the scene sort of entertaining.
• The wedding reception. Like Data's song-- even the "shut up, data" doesn't bother me as much as it bothered others-- since it was clearly playful banter that went along with a major promotion.
• Data's sacrifice. Actually pretty moving the first time I saw it, but it was so tempered by B4's cheap existence that the scene was far weaker than it could have been.

Other than this... I just can't think of ways to make this better without starting from scratch. So, let's... try to have a thread about good things about Nemesis. I have to wonder if a novelization could try to retcon this a bit, and improve some of these scenes. And I know that there were TONS of personal character scenes that were deleted for time for "more action" --aka. "less substance" -- I mean:

• Picard would have never have brought another Data-clone on board with the prior experience of Lore (who wasn't mentioned!)
• The existance of a Picard clone now means that there's both a rogue clone Riker AND a rogue clone Picard AND rogue clone Datas. Recycle much?
• The weird cutesy scene with Picard and Janeway... since when are they chummy to the point that an Admiral/Captain conversation would be that casual?
• The believability of Shinzon's rise. Seriously? A dying human clone and abandoned pet-project of the Romulans has this kind of power? And why is his prizon mentor and protect now his second in command? Why is he wasting time mind-raping Troi when he was so little time to live? There's a LOT in this arch (which is virtually the entire movie) that doesn't make any sense).

I apologize for bringing up this exhausted (to the point of the horse is long decomposed and yet we still feel the need to beat it) thread topic-- but I'd like to take it a different direction. What glimmers of enjoyment did you get out of the film? What can we try to like about it? I'm about to start the TNG-relaunch in novel form and I'm trying to wrap my mind around how to reconcile such a terrible way for our characters to have their last performance together.

 

[shapeshifter]

I'll never loved it but I will watch it on occasion with remote in hand for speeding past the garbage.

 

[AJBryant]

No.

 

[Piper]

Jim from Neighbours is in it.

...

That's about it.

 

[Praetor]

I'll have to say this.

No.

I can enjoy it if I turn my brain off, but it opens plot and logic holes the size of the Scimitar otherwise. There were character moments that I enjoyed, and the space battles were rather nice, but otherwise it felt very recycled and forced. Even some of the interior set quality felt like a step-down from the previous film. It was clear to me that took ingredients x,y, and z and forced a plot to coalesce around them, threw in some leftover set pieces (including Shinzon) and got NEM.

 

[Thor Damar]

I like that the Romulans were there and the design of the Capital, the Scimitar was a cool ship design (as were the latest Warbirds) and the Remans looked kinda interesting in terms of a backstory.

In fact I was quite excited about Nemesis, at last the Romulan Star Empire on the big screen, hooray!

Alas what we got was a cut price Wraith of Khan with all the good bits removed.

There must have been a lot of hubris for this Nemesis I'm afraid.

 

[Praetor]

Well said. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the stuff that was hinted at by the production was almost more interesting than the plot of the movie itself.

 

[Maurice]

Some things just aren't lovable. Let it go. Its ok.

 

[Praetor]

Arliss Coates: Why did you shoot Rosemary?
Travis Coates: She was sick.
Arliss Coates: Well, you were sick. How come we didn't shoot you?
Travis Coates: That was different.

 

[CoveTom]

It was clear to me that took ingredients x,y, and z and forced a plot to coalesce around them, threw in some leftover set pieces (including Shinzon) and got NEM.

Which is funny, because that's the exact approach they took on Generations and everyone involved agreed that didn't work out too well. You think they'd have learned their lesson. Then again, you think they'd have learned their lesson from TFF of trying to force humor in places where it doesn't belong because TVH had humor and it was a hit.

Studios just don't learn their lessons well. They think that constant action, big 'splosions, and sex are all you need to sell a film, and also believe that films that don't have that can't possibly sell. Despite the fact that history, time and again, has proven them wrong, they cling to this.

 

[Alrik]

Ever since I read through this thread earlier, I have been trying to come up with something possitive. I'm afraid that, at least in my eyes, this movie had very few, if any, redeeming qualities what so ever. I'm tempted to put my copy of it up on Ebay for $1, but I would prefer to keep my ST movie collection complete.

 

[trevanian]

All this title thread makes me think of is FAMILY GUY, when Peter is trying to get Meg to understand guys by forcing her to sit there in the car while he farts and farts. "You must learn to love the fart, Meg." (half expected him to obiwan it, 'you must trust in the fart ... the fart will be with you, always.')

Love NEM, huh? I can't even figure out how to like FC or TVH or SFS, so I'm not gonna be any help on this one, sorry.

 

[Candlelight]

I watch it for the 'splosions and not much else.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Sorry, there isn't enough alcohol or psychedelic drugs in the known universe to make Nemesis worthy of love.

 

[WillsBabe]

The shipper in me is pleased that Riker and Troi get married. I always like looking at TNG, so I enjoy that. Other than that, there's so much that's not worthy of TNG in it. But I've watched it a couple of times. Can't deny that.

 

[Too Much Fun]

You would have to back in time and be like me. So excited about seeing TNG on the big screen for the first time that you could not possibly hate it, no matter how bad it was. I went to the movies to see it and loved every moment of it. Then I went online and was deeply offended by all the criticism. I think the only way you can like it is if you're under a strong enough haze of nostalgia to forgive anything. Unless you can enjoy anything involving the TNG crew just because it's TNG...like how some people will watch a TV show even after it's no good anymore just because it was great for such a long time that it built up goodwill in them that will last forever (i.e. The Simpsons). But I can't go back to that. I try to watch it again and am cringing in seconds.

 

[Saga]

Sorry, there isn't enough alcohol or psychedelic drugs in the known universe to make Nemesis worthy of love.

i dunno, i kinda liked it when i had a bottle of Jager and several several glasses of Long Island Iced Tea.

 

[Praetor]

You would have to back in time and be like me. So excited about seeing TNG on the big screen for the first time that you could not possibly hate it, no matter how bad it was. I went to the movies to see it and loved every moment of it. Then I went online and was deeply offended by all the criticism. I think the only way you can like it is if you're under a strong enough haze of nostalgia to forgive anything. Unless you can enjoy anything involving the TNG crew just because it's TNG...like how some people will watch a TV show even after it's no good anymore just because it was great for such a long time that it built up goodwill in them that will last forever (i.e. The Simpsons). But I can't go back to that. I try to watch it again and am cringing in seconds.

Well said. I think you've inadvertently summed up why I still enjoy 'Generations' despite its many failings.

 

[sbk1234]

I do appreciate that the problems are not with the actors. They are all trying really hard to make a good movie. Judging from a couple of convention conversations I've had with a couple of them, they are as disappointed as the fans.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, it's hard to blame the actors when they give their all.