Is the Star Wars saga better with Episodes I to III or worse?

[Whofan]

There's been a few comics which have detailed the Ord Mantell inciddent:


Here's the Wiki for the unnamed-in-the-film bounty hunter.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skorr

 

[TheBrew]

I see your confusion, you're getting entire scenes and dialog all wrong.
Obi-Wan didn't bribe Han with anything, they sold Luke's speeder to pay for transport. The mission was to Alderaan, they never knew anything of the Death Star or that Leia was on it. It was only on the Death Star that Luke lied to Han telling him he could be rich upon saving her. Han still never knew at that point Luke didn't even know Leia or even if she could pay him. Leia had been cut off from her wealth upon the discovery she was a Rebel spy compounded by the fact all her wealth was gone with her planet.

HAN: It's going to cost you
something extra. Ten thousand in advance.

LUKE: Ten thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that!

HAN: But who's going to fly it, kid! You?

LUKE: You bet I could. I'm not such a bad pilot myself! We don't have to sit here and listen...

BEN: We haven't that much with us. But we could pay you two thousand now, plus fifteen when we reach Alderaan.

HAN: Seventeen, huh? Okay. You guys got yourself a ship. We'll leave as soon as you're ready. Docking bay Ninety-four.

Ok maybe he didn't know about "future riches" yet, but they did promise Han a much bigger payment at Alderaan. And all that took was the sale of a crappy little landspeeder!

Nope because if you listen to the dialog after Luke sells it and he tells Obi-Wan they don't have enough for the trip. Obi-Wan tells him they'll figure the rest out once they reach Alderaan. However once again, Alderaan went bye-bye. So did the rest of Han's payment. All this stuff is right in the original OT.

Also, at the point Han was desperate for money. He wanted to pay back Jabba ASAP.

 

[exodus]

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan could easily have won the money playing cards - few people have much of a Jedi-proof poker face.

They could also have broken into some associate of Jabba's place, real quiet-like, in the middle of the night, and made off with several bags full of credits.

Hell, they could easily have hijacked a small ship if they'd wanted to, one that could carry Padme and a few assistants at least.

And, if they had to do the silly podrace thing, they could also have modified the cockpit to fit Qui-Gon - I'd much rather bet on a Jedi Master pilot than a kid.

And that's accepting that the Queen's own damn ship doesn't have an emergency stash of quite a lot of dough.

This is bad comedy.


This is Star Wars, not Boyz in da Hood.

 

[exodus]

HAN: It's going to cost you
something extra. Ten thousand in advance.

LUKE: Ten thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that!

HAN: But who's going to fly it, kid! You?

LUKE: You bet I could. I'm not such a bad pilot myself! We don't have to sit here and listen...

BEN: We haven't that much with us. But we could pay you two thousand now, plus fifteen when we reach Alderaan.

HAN: Seventeen, huh? Okay. You guys got yourself a ship. We'll leave as soon as you're ready. Docking bay Ninety-four.

Ok maybe he didn't know about "future riches" yet, but they did promise Han a much bigger payment at Alderaan. And all that took was the sale of a crappy little landspeeder!

Nope because if you listen to the dialog after Luke sells it and he tells Obi-Wan they don't have enough for the trip. Obi-Wan tells him they'll figure the rest out once they reach Alderaan. However once again, Alderaan went bye-bye. So did the rest of Han's payment. All this stuff is right in the original OT.

When Han left the Rebel base it looked like he had ogtten his money as Luke pointed out to me, he had his money and now he was running away. It was alittle strange then that Han didn't pay off Jabba between the first two movies. Maybe Han had fallen for Leia and just didn't realize it yet.

...or it might have something to do with him having to go deeper into hiding now that he's on the Empire's radar in helping blow up the Death Star.

 

[davejames]

I'm actually quite sympathetic to this argument - I readily use it to defend T3 - but even apart from the OT changes Lucas makes to tie into the PT, the sheer volume of PT content, now that the Clone Wars are underway, threatens to tip the balance. No one denies that the PT makes SW bigger. But can anyone deny that it drags the series' overall artistic average down?

Yeah I think that's the problem I have. Before, when you thought "Star Wars," you thought of two great movies and one pretty good one.

Now, you think of two great movies... surrounded by a whole bunch of boring, lame, childish crap. Those incredibly dull prequel characters have now gotten more screentime than the fun and dynamic characters we grew up with.

And with the prequel universe now intruding on the OT with the special edition changes, it's even harder to separate the two.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

exodus

They had more options than they needed to get out of Tatooine:

Qui-Gon tried to brain wash the first merchant into accepting useless currence and failed?
He could go to the next one, brain wash him into changing useless republic currency into something with value, then go to the first merchant and buy the hyperdrive.

They could have given their new shiny ship in exchange for a ride out - a FAR higher price than usual for a happy pilot.

They could have exchanged their new shiny ship for an older, smaller ship with functioning hyperdrive.


But what does Qui-Gon do? He bets everything they have on a race with uncertain outcome (kids with 'midiclorians' and jedi are FAR from infallible) - one Anakin almost lost.

Watto was the only one with a hyper drive they needed, he couldn't go anywhere else.
"I'm the only one with T-13 Hyper drive, I'll bet you that....."
Remember that line?

I do, actually.
Which is why I said:

"Qui-Gon tried to brain wash the first merchant (Watto) into accepting useless currency and failed?
He could go to the next one, brain wash him into changing useless republic currency into something with value, then go to the first merchant (Watto) and buy the hyperdrive."

Is this too brainy for a star wars film?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I'm actually quite sympathetic to this argument - I readily use it to defend T3 - but even apart from the OT changes Lucas makes to tie into the PT, the sheer volume of PT content, now that the Clone Wars are underway, threatens to tip the balance. No one denies that the PT makes SW bigger. But can anyone deny that it drags the series' overall artistic average down?

Yeah I think that's the problem I have. Before, when you thought "Star Wars," you thought of two great movies and one pretty good one.

Now, you think of two great movies... surrounded by a whole bunch of boring, lame, childish crap. Those incredibly dull prequel characters have now gotten more screentime than the fun and dynamic characters we grew up with.

And with the prequel universe now intruding on the OT with the special edition changes, it's even harder to separate the two.

That's a personal choice, though. You don't have to think that way. You can choose to ignore everything else and just watch your original versions of the OT on DVD. No one says you have to pay attention to anything else. No one is saying you have to accept any other version. That's the beauty of it. It's up to individual choice. Hell, I almost never paid attention to any of the Star Wars novels or video games (the Zahn trilogy and TIE Fighter game notwithstanding) -- especially not in the pre-Prequel days when that was the only way to get anything related to Star Wars.

I did read Labyrinth of Evil just before ROTS was released, thought the book was crap, and now can't even remember much about it.

Why begrudge new material that, clearly, many people enjoy? Material that inevitably draws fans to experience the OT? Particularly when all you have to do is just ignore it? Makes no sense to me.

A debate about the quality of new material is an entirely different matter. I actually agree with Gaith that the PT "drags the series' overall artistic average down" -- but ROTJ did that, too.The saga is better off for having ROTJ, just as it is better off having the PT & CW available for people to enjoy or ignore as they see fit.

Besides, the best evidence that Star Wars is better off is this thread. As I said up thread, "people are still discussing and debating -- passionately, no less! -- Star Wars 25 years after ROTJ." That wouldn't be happening without the PT.

 

[Gaith]

Leaving aside the point that the non-SE OT dvds aren't letterboxed, nor are they age-restored and cleaned to SE levels...

Why begrudge new material that, clearly, many people enjoy?

I don't, really, but I do wish that the PT weren't so fatally flawed - not only for its own sake, but also because I'd like to enjoy the Clone Wars show, for instance, but can't, because I simply loathe the good clones vs. bad droids dynamic too much.

But notice that the thread title ain't "is the Star Wars saga better off with Episodes I to III or worse off?" The way it's phrased, the most logical interpretation is "does the PT diminish or enhance the series' overall artistic average quality."

Besides, the best evidence that Star Wars is better off is this thread. As I said up thread, "people are still discussing and debating -- passionately, no less! -- Star Wars 25 years after ROTJ." That wouldn't be happening without the PT.

Y'know, I sometimes wonder if making crappy prequels isn't some genius strategic ploy on Lucas' part, forcing discerning fans to debate apologists 'til the end of time.

 

[Lindley]

Besides, the best evidence that Star Wars is better off is this thread. As I said up thread, "people are still discussing and debating -- passionately, no less! -- Star Wars 25 years after ROTJ." That wouldn't be happening without the PT.

I'll bet it would be happening. Perhaps not the same degree, but Star Wars was alive and kicking before the PT was announced. I have no reason to think it wouldn't still be going strong if the PT hadn't happened.

The Special Editions were part of that resurgence, of course, but again it was still doing fine even before them.

 

[davejames]

Why begrudge new material that, clearly, many people enjoy? Material that inevitably draws fans to experience the OT? Particularly when all you have to do is just ignore it? Makes no sense to me.

Well no one said it was a rational thought process. Just like it's now a depressing experience to listen to any Amy Whinehouse song (because you can't help but picture her as a sad and pathetic crack-addict), for a while there it was hard for me to think of "Star Wars" without associating it with the awful prequels.

I'm slowly coming around now, but it did take awhile to get that awful taste washed out.

 

[davejames]

I'll bet it would be happening. Perhaps not the same degree, but Star Wars was alive and kicking before the PT was announced. I have no reason to think it wouldn't still be going strong if the PT hadn't happened.

The Special Editions were part of that resurgence, of course, but again it was still doing fine even before them.

Plus I don't know if it's something to be celebrated when MOST of the talk and debate about the prequels the last 10 years revolves around whether they're even any good. lol

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Well this very thread's subject is if the Saga is better or worse and has sort of turned at times into a prequel bashing thread which is wont to do when this type of subject comes up at the first place. I tend to think that Star Wars is better...more depth and mythos (doesn't matter if has contradicted the OT or is good, etc) it has provided immense and emotional debate among fans, spawned even more novels (by the way the EU was still going strong prior to the PT and I believe would have continued on as the main source of Star Wars stories had it not been made), TWO television series, a whole bunch more merchandise. The Prequel Trilogy has it's place in the pop culture zeitgeist just as much as the Original Trilogy did...even if that discussion is negative and borderlines as jokes and punch lines! I think that it's better with them but obviously I'm in the minority.

 

[Expo67]

It gives it more dimension. So, I think it is better.

 

[Tulin]

Worse.

Not only should all three prequels be scrapped and remade from entirely new parts, but I'd also like to dream that without them, we might have had bigger and better TNG movies. According to Wikipedia, the PT was announced in '94. So from then until 2005, the Paramount bosses knew that there'd be three movies released over a six-year period that, due to SW's huge popularity, Lucas' budget and the story's inevitable scope, would dwarf any TNG movies in terms of action, production design and epic-ness. Why bother compete if you can't win? So Paramount insisted upon cheaper, more character-based movies... but TNG had pretty well used up its best character stories already

Uuuuuuuummmmmmm..........yeah..........It's a commonly held truism that all of TNG's best character stories had been used up, isn't it?



Fail.

 

[FalTorPan]

There was no need for the prequels. Who cares how Anakin became Darth Vader... and now that we do know, I for one wish we'd never known.

The new movies look amazing. The visual effects are cool, the costumes are neat, yadda yadda yadda. The story just plain sucks.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Worse

Stupid plots

Those stupid drab jedi robes

Over reliance on unnecessary cgi

Over use of the lightsaber

Podracing

If they were really harking back to the old Buster Crabbe Flash Gordons then maybe Episode 1 shouldn't have had a opening crawl, it being the first in the series and all

 

[Skellington]

Better. Episode 2 wasn't bad (despite resembling a toy advert) and episode 3 was excellent in its way, notwithstanding problems such as the lack of chemistry between Christensen and Portman. The prequels also laid the groundwork for Jedi Knight and the mighty KOTOR.

 

[Gojira]

^ Well this very thread's subject is if the Saga is better or worse and has sort of turned at times into a prequel bashing thread which is wont to do when this type of subject comes up at the first place. I tend to think that Star Wars is better...more depth and mythos (doesn't matter if has contradicted the OT or is good, etc) it has provided immense and emotional debate among fans, spawned even more novels (by the way the EU was still going strong prior to the PT and I believe would have continued on as the main source of Star Wars stories had it not been made), TWO television series, a whole bunch more merchandise. The Prequel Trilogy has it's place in the pop culture zeitgeist just as much as the Original Trilogy did...even if that discussion is negative and borderlines as jokes and punch lines! I think that it's better with them but obviously I'm in the minority.

I am with you. I saw the original trilogy in the theaters and even though I would have liked somethings to be different in the prequels all in all I do like them a great deal.

 

[Set Harth]

Your avatar frightens me.

 

[Artemis]

God, where's Mach5 when you need him?

I say better.

Elaboration not necessary when you base something solely on your subjective taste. The story sucks, yeah. But I dare say that it is the sheer visual beauty of the movies what makes them worth seeing and loving.

Your avatar frightens me.

So true.