Is the Star Wars saga better with Episodes I to III or worse?
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Neither.
If there were no prequels, it probably would have been farmed off to a couple of novel writers. So we probably would have gotten something like NJO, but in the past and with CLONES.
Agreed.
I came in here expecting it was an easy answer, but the more I think about it, the more I'm not sure. The prequels were largely terrible, and terrible decisions went into them: Anakin's building C-3P0, Jar Jar, Boba Fett's background, etc. But there are elements I like: the weirdness of the original trilogy's mythic struggle being rooted in trade issues, the way the cloning planet resembles THX-1138 somehow. So, I'll vote no, but largely because of the execution of the films.
I'd rather have the prequels, I suppose. After all, they were worth watching once. I even saw ROTS twice! It would have sucked never to have seen the Battle of Mustafar, and after all, when Lucas finally kicks off, maybe his successors can do a reboot of the prequels and fix everything that's wrong with them.
And without the prequels, there would have been no Backstroke of the West.
And without the prequels, there would have been no Backstroke of the West.
Eh, they were watchable. I'd argue that the negatives and positives offset each other, so the answer is neither. I do feel it adds something to the Star Wars universe (they shouldn't be watched first, though, go 4-6, 1-3, and then 4-6 to see what it added).
Episode I could've really been done as a novel IMHO. It was an o.k. movie but felt more like a movie-length prologue that set a lot of things up but there was certainly little payoff for anything, particularly since it takes place TEN whole years before the main storyline. In an ideal world, I would've had Episode I cover the events featured in Episode II, a "Labyrinth of Evil"-esque middle movie that covers some of the latter parts of the Clone Wars/hunt for Darth Sidious and leads directly into Episode III:ROTS would've made the prequels stronger and more action-packed IMHO. As things stand, the Clone Wars animated series, much to my surprise, has added a lot more to the prequels/saga. I'd still like to see some expansion, however of the OT.
With Episode 3, yes. I'd say, that's the only one of the prequels that actually adds anything of value to the franchise. The first two just get dragged down due to the midichlorian nonsense. Although I really wished they would have gone and used some of the details from the Thrawn trilogy to make up the prequels.
Worse.
Not only should all three prequels be scrapped and remade from entirely new parts, but I'd also like to dream that without them, we might have had bigger and better TNG movies. According to Wikipedia, the PT was announced in '94. So from then until 2005, the Paramount bosses knew that there'd be three movies released over a six-year period that, due to SW's huge popularity, Lucas' budget and the story's inevitable scope, would dwarf any TNG movies in terms of action, production design and epic-ness. Why bother compete if you can't win? So Paramount insisted upon cheaper, more character-based movies... but TNG had pretty well used up its best character stories already, so their movies weren't too good.
Is it any coincidence that the first Trek movie released after the (presumably) last Wars episode is the first to pack Wars-like scope, thrills and action?
Maybe - I'm writing at least half-tongue-in-cheek here. But given the choice between having the PT in its current form vs. not at all, I choose the latter for sure.
PS. The Clone Wars of the OT was NOT good clones vs. bad droids. That's just a hopelessly moronic idea, on a level with making The Hobbit and portraying the dwarves as rapping gangbangers. So long as the PT is considered canon, no amount of not-terrible CG TV episodes can overcome that stain.
Not only should all three prequels be scrapped and remade from entirely new parts, but I'd also like to dream that without them, we might have had bigger and better TNG movies. According to Wikipedia, the PT was announced in '94. So from then until 2005, the Paramount bosses knew that there'd be three movies released over a six-year period that, due to SW's huge popularity, Lucas' budget and the story's inevitable scope, would dwarf any TNG movies in terms of action, production design and epic-ness. Why bother compete if you can't win? So Paramount insisted upon cheaper, more character-based movies... but TNG had pretty well used up its best character stories already, so their movies weren't too good.
Is it any coincidence that the first Trek movie released after the (presumably) last Wars episode is the first to pack Wars-like scope, thrills and action?
Maybe - I'm writing at least half-tongue-in-cheek here. But given the choice between having the PT in its current form vs. not at all, I choose the latter for sure.
PS. The Clone Wars of the OT was NOT good clones vs. bad droids. That's just a hopelessly moronic idea, on a level with making The Hobbit and portraying the dwarves as rapping gangbangers. So long as the PT is considered canon, no amount of not-terrible CG TV episodes can overcome that stain.
You do realize the second one didn't even mention midichlorians. It was the first and third that did that. In the big picture, the movies did not sink or swim on midichlorians.
Better. If you didn't like them you can ignore them and focus on the originals and if you did like them then they add a lot to the Star Wars mythos. I liked them. A lot.
Far, far, far worse.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Worse. It wasn't all bad. I don't care they de-mystified Boba Fett by ironically actually making his past too sigificant for many fanboys to stomach.
Episode 1 is where it all went wrong and was unrecoverable. We have Anakin as a precocious 10 year old, meeting a teenage girl he'd later decide was his soul mate. We have the Battle Droids, inane, nonthreatening cannon fodder that would carry on into the next two films. We have a disposable villain that looked cool in Darth Maul, but was little more than a marketing entity (PUT HIS FACE ON PACKAGES!). We have the Jedi as dullard bureaucrats. We have C-3PO's unnecessary origin, as opposed to mere introduction (like R2-D2). Oh, and Jar Jar Binks, comic relief should be that...it should be, say, leading the charge against the enemy.
Why do the Sith want revenge? There's a problem right there. There's no gravity to that claim. Just "we once ruled" or some vague idea. The word SITH is only seen in the opening scrawl of Star Wars. It was not a word that the general public associated with the universe. We actually need a prolouge however many (hundreds? thousands?) of years ago, as the Sith are beaten...with a younger Yoda, and a mention of a future prophecy (if we wanna go that route). That would go against the opening scrawl-format of the films, though. So...how do you make that work?
Episode 2 mucks things up by not paying attention of action movie romance rules. A man and a woman fall in love while on the run (See Empire Strikes Back), not while frolicking in the fields with CGI creatures and comparing things to sand. The romantic pauses between the chase should be brief, not grating. The set up for Anakin and Padme to be ducking bounty hunter/assassins was RIGHT THERE. Then they said "fuck it, let's have them tour Naboo like yuppie assholes on vacation".
And Dooku, his introduction is built up in episode 2, appearing only in the last, what 40 minutes? Then he
's offed in the first 20 minutes of Episode 3, because Grievous was more marketable. WHO IS GRIEVOUS? If you only watched the movies, you'd have no idea.
Episode 3 relies on Palpatine having as well-laid plans and luck as the Joker in The Dark Knight. Except, for some reason he allows himself to be disfigured. (Or does he, a pointless mystery introduced...)
We have the questionable act of Yoda and Obi-Wan splitting up instead of teaming up against Palpatine. Anakin was obviously the pawn. Beating Anakin won't save the Republic. You go after the guy in charge, not the henchman (the mistake the Jedi made in Episodes 1 and 2). But then, mulitple Jedi vs one Sith always ends badly based on the films, so...
Padme dies of a broken heart, had to poop but could only fart. BTW, they made her a strong character (in spirit) in Episodes 1 and 2 only to make her an utter fool in the third movie. (Anyone tell me why she has bodyguards she never takes with her?)
Yoda and Obi-Wan's end plan is to run and hide, placing their hopes for future in people who drink goddamned blue milk. Oh, and Jimmy Smits
Episode 1 is where it all went wrong and was unrecoverable. We have Anakin as a precocious 10 year old, meeting a teenage girl he'd later decide was his soul mate. We have the Battle Droids, inane, nonthreatening cannon fodder that would carry on into the next two films. We have a disposable villain that looked cool in Darth Maul, but was little more than a marketing entity (PUT HIS FACE ON PACKAGES!). We have the Jedi as dullard bureaucrats. We have C-3PO's unnecessary origin, as opposed to mere introduction (like R2-D2). Oh, and Jar Jar Binks, comic relief should be that...it should be, say, leading the charge against the enemy.
Why do the Sith want revenge? There's a problem right there. There's no gravity to that claim. Just "we once ruled" or some vague idea. The word SITH is only seen in the opening scrawl of Star Wars. It was not a word that the general public associated with the universe. We actually need a prolouge however many (hundreds? thousands?) of years ago, as the Sith are beaten...with a younger Yoda, and a mention of a future prophecy (if we wanna go that route). That would go against the opening scrawl-format of the films, though. So...how do you make that work?
Episode 2 mucks things up by not paying attention of action movie romance rules. A man and a woman fall in love while on the run (See Empire Strikes Back), not while frolicking in the fields with CGI creatures and comparing things to sand. The romantic pauses between the chase should be brief, not grating. The set up for Anakin and Padme to be ducking bounty hunter/assassins was RIGHT THERE. Then they said "fuck it, let's have them tour Naboo like yuppie assholes on vacation".
And Dooku, his introduction is built up in episode 2, appearing only in the last, what 40 minutes? Then he
's offed in the first 20 minutes of Episode 3, because Grievous was more marketable. WHO IS GRIEVOUS? If you only watched the movies, you'd have no idea.
Episode 3 relies on Palpatine having as well-laid plans and luck as the Joker in The Dark Knight. Except, for some reason he allows himself to be disfigured. (Or does he, a pointless mystery introduced...)
We have the questionable act of Yoda and Obi-Wan splitting up instead of teaming up against Palpatine. Anakin was obviously the pawn. Beating Anakin won't save the Republic. You go after the guy in charge, not the henchman (the mistake the Jedi made in Episodes 1 and 2). But then, mulitple Jedi vs one Sith always ends badly based on the films, so...
Padme dies of a broken heart, had to poop but could only fart. BTW, they made her a strong character (in spirit) in Episodes 1 and 2 only to make her an utter fool in the third movie. (Anyone tell me why she has bodyguards she never takes with her?)
Yoda and Obi-Wan's end plan is to run and hide, placing their hopes for future in people who drink goddamned blue milk. Oh, and Jimmy Smits
Jimmy Smitts was great. He makes everything he's in awesome. I remember his tragic deliver of the line "And so it is" when he arrives at the temple and the clones tell him it's time to leave.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
It might have helped to intro him and Dooku in Episode 1. Actually, some scenes with a Senator Organa were filmed with a different actor and have never been seen by anyone that isn't a Lucas insider or dead.
The prequels were decent enough movies, and I for one am glad they were made. No they don't measure up to the original trilogy, but who cares?
Most of the people who hate the prequels can't get past minor (for Star Wars films) quibbles like Jar Jar, the lame dialouge or the lack of "acting".
In general, the story being allowed to showcase Anakin's entire fall to (and subsequent rise from) the Dark Side is pretty fantastic, I think.
Movie snobs and CGI haters overlook what's good about the prequels because it's easy... Lucas made it so easy to dislike those elements when the OT was so great for the young and old alike.
Although upon repeat viewings of Menace and Clones there is a lot of dead space. I usually DVD-skip ahead to the next action sequence. This is especially true of Clones. I find the conversation between Anakin and Amidala much harder to endure than, say, any scene with Jar-Jar. The farting scene before the pod race is probably the lowest point in the series... second only to the "new" musical number in Jabba's palace. Absolute shit.
It's also worth nothing that on certain levels ROTS > ROTJ. But of course the original trilogy can always be appreciated on it's own as a set of three films.
Interestingly enough I read after SITH come out that Lucas mused that he should have combined Menace and Clones into one film and spread SITH out over two films. Well, too late for that now!!!
In general, the story being allowed to showcase Anakin's entire fall to (and subsequent rise from) the Dark Side is pretty fantastic, I think.
Movie snobs and CGI haters overlook what's good about the prequels because it's easy... Lucas made it so easy to dislike those elements when the OT was so great for the young and old alike.
Although upon repeat viewings of Menace and Clones there is a lot of dead space. I usually DVD-skip ahead to the next action sequence. This is especially true of Clones. I find the conversation between Anakin and Amidala much harder to endure than, say, any scene with Jar-Jar. The farting scene before the pod race is probably the lowest point in the series... second only to the "new" musical number in Jabba's palace. Absolute shit.
It's also worth nothing that on certain levels ROTS > ROTJ. But of course the original trilogy can always be appreciated on it's own as a set of three films.
Interestingly enough I read after SITH come out that Lucas mused that he should have combined Menace and Clones into one film and spread SITH out over two films. Well, too late for that now!!!
I do agree with this. For the most part, my personal ranking of the movies is pretty set in stone (TESB > ANH > ROTJ/ROTS > TPM > AOTC), but I always waver with ROTJ and ROTS. It really depends on my mood, I think.
