Is the "prime" timeline erased or running on a different channel?

[FordSVT]

Again:
Technically it's actually a branching of the timeline that *follows on* from the previous timeline and turns back on itself:

The old continuity still happened- then this happened *after* it.

It's like...

>--ENT--->---60s TOS--->---TNG--->---DS9--->--VOY-->---\--->24th century folks except Spock--->--->
*************************************************\
*************************************************/
*/----<-----<----<--Spock & Nero---<-----<----<-----<-----/
/
\
*\---->---Abrams-TOS--->

Which, coincidentally, is also the way modern science and quantum theory believes messing around with time works.

Yeah I think most people get this. But that means that we havent even been watching the same timeline all these years with the shows and films. Right??? UNLESS this blackhole phenomenon changed the rules I guess.

Trek has NEVER used consistent time travel rules. They often contradict one another, even in the same episode.

Abrahms has resorted to the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics in his story, which is the interpretation of reality that more and more quantum physicists are coming to agree with. It solves most of the paradoxes and problems that other methods of time travel pose.

 

[Trekwatcher]

All Abrams had to say to the Trekkies/ Trekkers was that this is a "parallel universe" over and over again. All he had to say that is was a mirror universe like the one Sisko went into in DS9 (where the humans were the slaves). Had he done that, the discussion would have been over and I would be at the cinema now watching his film. Cobra

I and MANY other people I know left the theater wondering if TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY had been erased. I figured ENT was still intact either way. If you did not watch the trailers, previews, etc to keep it as a surprise, it was not entirely clear what they were saying on the first go. People who saw that stuff and/or read/bbs'd about the movie in advance were better prepared.

Just the fact that this entire board has been consumed by this question is proof enough for me that it could have been explained more clearly.

 

[Theodore Jay Miller]

TNG's "Parallels" clearly establishes the existence of a potentially infinite number of alternate universes. This is no different.

Yes, I'd use "Parallels" as the basis. "Parallels" established that lots of very similar universes exist. So universes still exist in which the events we saw in TOS and TNG and so on happened as we saw them, and universes exist in which Nero altered aspects of Kirk's life, destroyed Vulcan, etc. That seems to me to be the important thing. The exact temporal mechanics, whether Nero altered a particular TOS/TNG universe to an Abrams universe, or whether he split off an Abrams universe from an unaltered TOS/TNG universe, seems like more of a detail.

 

[CoveTom]

Well the reason why I think it matter is that Abrahms has now turned time travel even less consistant in the Trek universe. This film has basically rewritten the way we viewed time travel in Star Trek.

Well, not really. It's just established that there are two different methods of time travel with two different effects.

The 'normal' method of time travel is the one that has most often been employed on Trek. It could be because of a slingshot around the sun. Could be because of the Guardian of Forever. Whatever. But in that method of time travel, the parties involved travel back and forth through their one original timeline. And changes that are made affect that same timeline, altering history. Changes can also be undone, to some degree, and for the most part restore history.

But the new film presents us with a second form of time travel, one outside the normal methods, one caused by the use of the artificial black hole created by this mysterious new 'red matter.' This method does not simply involve traveling through time, but also transports the parties to a different parallel universe or parallel reality, something that has already been well established to exist in Trek through episodes like 'Parallels,' 'The Tholian Web,' and 'Mirror, Mirror.' Now, instead of moving back and forth in their own timeline, the parties involved are doing one of two things... they're either moving to another parallel universe which already existed or they are, through their actions, creating a brand new parallel universe. The latter seems to be what the writers intended.

In short, it's as simple as this for me... In 'City on the Edge of Forever' and 'The Voyage Home' and 'Trials and Tribble-ations' and so forth, the crew members were traveling back and forth through their own timeline and making changes to that timeline. In the new film, they are traveling through time in a new and different timeline which has no bearing or effect on their original one and which does not preclude the original timeline from continuing normally.

 

[Trekwatcher]

TNG's "Parallels" clearly establishes the existence of a potentially infinite number of alternate universes. This is no different.

Yes, I'd use "Parallels" as the basis. "Parallels" established that lots of very similar universes exist. So universes still exist in which the events we saw in TOS and TNG and so on happened as we saw them, and universes exist in which Nero altered aspects of Kirk's life, destroyed Vulcan, etc. That seems to me to be the important thing. The exact temporal mechanics, whether Nero altered a particular TOS/TNG universe to an Abrams universe, or whether he split off an Abrams universe from an unaltered TOS/TNG universe, seems like more of a detail.

I dunno. I went and watched "Parallels" yesterday to regroup on what Data had said. It does make a difference (to me, at least) if the TOS/TNG universe was destroyed or split off. It is not just a detail. Honestly, if I had left the theatre thinking it had split off (rather than been destroyed) I would have enjoyed the movie much more.

 

[Trekker4747]

Apologies for a narrow post, but I didn't see any discussion in other threads...

I have a temporal mechanics question:

Did Nero's action erase the "prime" timeline altogether or did it create a new, concurrent parallel timeline for this film?

It's whatever you want it to be.

It could be argued that even if you "erase" a timeline that that timeline still runs on in its own universe. That "changing the timeline" isn't about erasing the future, but about moving into another universe.

 

[barnaclelapse]

Different channel. They are running concurrently.

That answer.

 

[Thomas Riker]

I prefer to think that the Prime Timeline may be altered rather than erased. The whole Parallels theory pretty much guaruntees that the Prime Timeline is safe anyway - however we'll never see any more films/tv shows in that universe.

What we've got is a new altered universe where Kirk and Co will probably go on all the same adventures they did before. As an example VGer will still happen, Khan is still out there, the probe from STIV is still coming and praxis will probably still explode and Jim Kirk will be called upon to save the day as usual.

 

[Link]

The DVD|s still exist.

 

[Trekker4747]

The DVD|s still exist.

Yes the|y do.

 

[Thomas Riker]

^
Yes but as soon as you put one in the DVD Player a popup will say the following

"Please upgrade to JJUniverse 1.0 to view. Thank You for your cooperation"

 

[Link]

^
Yes but as soon as you put one in the DVD Player a popup will say the following

"Please upgrade to JJUniverse 1.0 to view. Thank You for your cooperation"

 

[CaptainStoner]

Just seems wrong that we now have two universes and each is missing a unification planet.

Yes, and when you put it that way, it seems to have added impact. An almost mythological struggle in which one of the twin brothers kills the other.
But as Spock likes to say, there are always alternatives. There would also be countless universes in which neither planet was destroyed, universes in which the Vulcans remained aggressive, and so on. The universe in which I did some laundry before work today -

 

[AviTrek]

I'm pretty sure this question has come up a hundred times in the past two years, but people keep asking it.

Think of it this way. Spock Prime is the point-of-view character for this story, showing him and Nero traveling from their original timeline to this new one.

But think about it from Picard's point-of-view: He sees Spock and Nero disappear into the black hole and never hears from them again. His universe doesn't end. He and the Enterprise-E crew simply go on with their lives, with no knowledge of the chaos Spock and Nero are unleashing in the new timeline.

Or how about Yesterday's Enterprise where as soon as the Ent-C entered the future the Ent-D visibly changed(with Guinan remember the correct timeline). Then as soon as the Ent-C returns to its time the Ent-D corrected itself. But Tasha being sent back was able to produce a child that lived in the same timeline that had her killed years before she went back in time.

Seems like changing the past does change the future. But of course the real answer is, whatever the author wants to do in the story. And in this case Orci said the original timeline continues uneffected.

 

[The Evil Dead]

Remember the TNG episode "Parallels"?

 

[TrekGuide.com]

Well the reason why I think it matter is that Abrahms has now turned time travel even less consistant in the Trek universe. This film has basically rewritten the way we viewed time travel in Star Trek.

Well, not really. It's just established that there are two different methods of time travel with two different effects.

Actually, there are Five Different Methods of Time Travel.

 

[Starbreaker]

Apologies for a narrow post, but I didn't see any discussion in other threads...

I have a temporal mechanics question:

Did Nero's action erase the "prime" timeline altogether or did it create a new, concurrent parallel timeline for this film?

You weren't looking very hard then. That's the main discussion of this forum.