Is the "prime" timeline erased or running on a different channel?
- Thread starter golakers
- Start date
That hasn't happened in this timeline and may never happen.
The Prime timeline still exists. In the Prime timeline, Romulus is still destroyed, Vulcan still exists. However, Prime Spock and Nero and crew no longer exist in the Prime timeline; They aren't erased (everyone in Prime who knew them still remember Prime Spock and Nero), they are just no longer a part of its universe.
Did Nero's action erase the "prime" timeline altogether or did it create a new, concurrent parallel timeline for this film?
Not according to "Countdown" (IDW comic mini-series and trade omnibus), in a story supplied by the screenwriters.
I don't know how I feel about Romulus being gone in the 'real' timeline. Also, Vulcan blowing up didn't hit me very hard because it was all taking place in the other universe. I avoided spoilers for the most part so I didn't even know that there would be a new timeline that would stay. Still liked the movie though. Just seems wrong that we now have two universes and each is missing a unification planet.
There was no Nazi planet until John Gill visited there and started their Nazi movement.
In the new timeline, there's no telling if that's going to happen.
Oh, as regards Tuvok, he was born on a Vulcan "lunar colony" called "Vulcanis".
Since Vulcan has no moon, this "lunar colony" could be in another star system entirely, and be a class-M moon orbiting a gas giant.
His family might already have been living there at the time Vulcan was wiped out.
Heh heh heh...
IMO, they handled the "new timeline" aspect very respectfully, as far as the fans are concerned. There's nothing significant about nuTrek that takes anything away from the Trek Prime history. The film was closer to the original TOS vision than TNG was, that's certain.
As for a TNG universe without Romulus? Small potatoes compared to a TOS universe without Vulcan, which has major dramatic implications. IF they ever get back to the TNG era with the new timeline, they can deal with it then.
As for a TNG universe without Romulus? Small potatoes compared to a TOS universe without Vulcan, which has major dramatic implications. IF they ever get back to the TNG era with the new timeline, they can deal with it then.
Glad you started this thread, I was getting tired of saying this ovr and over. 
Thought for today: If the Prime timeline was changed, something weird would have happened to Old Spock - memories changed, existing in 2 places in the one universe at once would cause weird quantum effects, and so on. If New Spock died, Old Spock would still carry on.
Thought for today: If the Prime timeline was changed, something weird would have happened to Old Spock - memories changed, existing in 2 places in the one universe at once would cause weird quantum effects, and so on. If New Spock died, Old Spock would still carry on.
Why would Spock let Vulcan and his mother get destroyed. The Spock I know would find a ship and time warp back to prevent such an occurance. Cobra
Good point. He was willing to time warp to save Earth. Why hasn't he time warped yet to save Vulcan?
It must happen in a sequel.
It's all theoretical. Believe what you want to believe.
Old Spock didn't know what was going to happen to him when he fell into the black hole. He resigned himself to death when he fell in. He didn't know he would actually time travel. He didn't know he would get captured by Nero so quickly. He didn't know he would lose his ship. He didn't know Vulcan would be destroyed until he looked up into the sky.
That would be a cop-out, using time travel to undo everything that happened in the story, like so many reset-button episodes of "Voyager" have done.
I've been watching "Star Trek" for so long that I have come to expect a reset-button cop-out at the end.
At the end of this movie, after the Narada was destroyed by the black hole, I was actually thinking to myself, "OK, this is where the Enterprise tries to go to warp inside the gravity well of a black hole, causing them to slingshot two days into the past, where they can save Vulcan."
Imagine my surprise when they got home and Vulcan was still destroyed.
As to the question of whether the original timeline still existed AFTER Nero went into the past, that was directly addressed in the movie itself, and the answer is YES.
After Nero went into the past and attacked the U.S.S. Kelvin, creating the new timeline with his arrival, Spock was still in his ship in the original timeline, and had not yet entered the black hole. Scenes of the original timeline still existing were shown AFTER Nero went into the past but BEFORE Spock went into the past. Obviously, Nero's time travel did not erase the original timeline, or else Ambassador Spock would not have existed to follow him back.
What if somehow Spock was able to avoid entering the black hole? He would have seen Nero enter, and never heard from him again.
Also, since Spock and Nero entered the black hole at different times, yet ended up in the same timeline, it would appear that the black hole is an ongoing gateway between the two timelines, so that at a later time, another ship (e.g., the Enterprise-E or the Titan) could enter the black hole after Spock and Nero, and appear at some later time in the new timeline.
It is a foolish debate whether the original timeline still existed after Nero went into the past, since both Spock and everyone watching the movie saw the original timeline still existing after Nero entered the black hole.
If Spock was still around to follow Nero back, so was Picard and Riker and Janeway and everyone else in the Universe. So, no, the original timeline did NOT disappear. It was still there AFTER Nero went back in time. We all saw it. So did Spock. There are two timelines, connected by one black hole. End of debate.
Well the reason why I think it matter is that Abrahms has now turned time travel even less consistant in the Trek universe. This film has basically rewritten the way we viewed time travel in Star Trek. Instead of all the time travel stories in Trek going back to normal once things are set right. We ar enow to believe that we have been watching 4 different Picards all these years, two or three different Janeways, a few Spocks, Kirks etc.
I understand what TrekGuide is saying. But I refuse to believe that is what the writers intents have been all these years regarding timelines. Yes there were some altered aspects of the timelines when someone changed something but things generally flowed back to normal for the most part and the timeline went on its merry way.
Of course now Abrahms movie has thrown another wrench in the works. One that Trek didnt need regarding time travel. It had enough inconsistantsies to start with. Did we really need another.
At least the inconsistantsies were easily explained away before but this film now makes it even harder especially since we didnt really get a concret answer in the film what happened.
Again:
Technically it's actually a branching of the timeline that *follows on* from the previous timeline and turns back on itself:
The old continuity still happened- then this happened *after* it.
It's like...
>--ENT--->---60s TOS--->---TNG--->---DS9--->--VOY-->---\--->24th century folks except Spock--->--->
*************************************************\
*************************************************/
*/----<-----<----<--Spock & Nero---<-----<----<-----<-----/
/
\
*\---->---Abrams-TOS--->
Which, coincidentally, is also the way modern science and quantum theory believes messing around with time works.
Technically it's actually a branching of the timeline that *follows on* from the previous timeline and turns back on itself:
The old continuity still happened- then this happened *after* it.
It's like...
>--ENT--->---60s TOS--->---TNG--->---DS9--->--VOY-->---\--->24th century folks except Spock--->--->
*************************************************\
*************************************************/
*/----<-----<----<--Spock & Nero---<-----<----<-----<-----/
/
\
*\---->---Abrams-TOS--->
Which, coincidentally, is also the way modern science and quantum theory believes messing around with time works.
Yeah I think most people get this. But that means that we havent even been watching the same timeline all these years with the shows and films. Right??? UNLESS this blackhole phenomenon changed the rules I guess.
Greatest post ever!OR...
OR...
Not quite- the new timeline doesn't actually connect at point x, but to the side of point x on the same level with it, otherwise Prime Spock would have been going a bit transparent. Also because we know the original timeline also still exists, as Nero did the damage to Kirk's early life *before* Spock came back in time from the original timeline - which wouldn't have been possible if the new timeline overrode the original
I have no problem with there being multiple time-travel concepts in Trek.
Time-travel within the same universe? Cool.
Time-travel that creates an alternate/parallel universe? Cool.
I don't see them as being mutually exclusive within the boundaries of Trek science and storytelling....*shrug*
Time-travel within the same universe? Cool.
Time-travel that creates an alternate/parallel universe? Cool.
I don't see them as being mutually exclusive within the boundaries of Trek science and storytelling....*shrug*
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