Is the Planetary Union in "Orville" a military?

[Jayson1]

I'm still even after all the episodes still confused as to what they do as a organization. The ship doesn't seem to explore or do much science experiments. They don't seem to be doing military operations all that much. My best guess is the Union is kind of Starfleet like though I wouldn't be shocked if they had a military branch that is kind of ran seperatly which means they are not quite as melded as you see in Starfleet.

As for the Orville I think it is supose to be exploring space but unlike the Enterprise it isn't equipped for long-term study or major scientific tests but more like a scout ship that searches out interesting stuff and reports back and then a more equipped ship is sent to really explore in more depth what was found. Once in awhile they do got to carry out missions that are a little more important but that isn't the ship or crews main jobs.

Jason

 

[dahj]

They literally say they're a military in the very first episode.

 

[Mudd]

Fuck yes.

What show have you been watching, Jayson? At least three episodes have centered on the Orville defending colonies from military attack by the Krill or conducting espionage operations against them. They make no apologies about that.

Unless there's a joke about monkeys here somewhere, this topic is a complete misfire.

Maybe we can salvage it.

Now, what is true is that the characters on The Orville interact with one another much more like coworkers and supervisors in a civilian workplace than they do a naval unit. This makes a great deal of sense as television, given that most Americans in the last couple of generations have no experience whatever with serving in the military.

Pretending to be the Space Navy gave Star Trek TOS's faux future a cultural framework that was familiar enough to a generation that had experienced mass conscription and national war mobilization but that was different enough from daily life to be somewhat plausible as shorthand for another point in history.

After fifty years of Star Trek and Star Wars, that kind of thing is no longer necessary - what was exotic and might have been confusing once is now the foundation of our pop cultural zeitgeist - and a civilian workplace is more relatable.

Now, that's not going to work for everyone watching - they'll buy warp drive and transporters as plausible in a certain context in which "lieutenant commanders" and "lieutenants" hanging out and messing with each other somehow violates their "suspension of disbelief" - but it's not like Trek's characters have ever really been treated like they're in the Navy: there's enormous latitude given, especially frorm TNG on, to insubordination, breaking of Fleet Regulations and even Federation law, and characters can resign from the service and move on as simply as by saying 'I'm outta here because Reasons' and packing their bags.

 

[Jayson1]

Fuck yes.

What show have you been watching, Jayson? At least three episodes have centered on the Orville defending colonies from military attack by the Krill or conducting espionage operations against them. They make no apologies about that.

Unless there's a joke about monkeys here somewhere, this topic is a complete misfire.

Maybe we can salvage it.

Now, what is true is that the characters on The Orville interact with one another much more like coworkers and supervisors in a civilian workplace than they do a naval unit. This makes a great deal of sense as television, given that most Americans in the last couple of generations have no experience whatever with serving in the military.

Pretending to be the Space Navy gave Star Trek TOS's faux future a cultural framework that was familiar enough to a generation that had experienced mass conscription and national war mobilization but that was different enough from daily life to be somewhat plausible as shorthand for another point in history.

After fifty years of Star Trek and Star Wars, that kind of thing is no longer necessary - what was exotic and might have been confusing once is now the foundation of our pop cultural zeitgeist - and a civilian workplace is more relatable.

Now, that's not going to work for everyone watching - they'll buy warp drive and transporters as plausible in a certain context in which "lieutenant commanders" and "lieutenants" hanging out and messing with each other somehow violates their "suspension of disbelief" - but it's not like Trek's characters have ever really been treated like they're in the Navy: there's enormous latitude given, especially frorm TNG on, to insubordination, breaking of Fleet Regulations and even Federation law, and characters can resign from the service and move on as simply as by saying 'I'm outta here because Reasons' and packing their bags.

The reason why I am unsure about it being a military is the kind of relax manner the characters have even when on the job. Not so much that it isn't military but not something that would be sent on the front lines if you had a war. I have never been in the service but I alway asumed that not everyone who joins up becomes a traditional soldier. Like who runs the drones and who works on the machine?. Then again what exactly does a traditional soldier do on a army base during most of the day when not on missions?

Jason

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I thought the Planetary Union was the name of the government, not its military?

Unless they're the same...which would be a rather chilling thought, even in a comedy like this.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the government. We have seen the Orville referred to as a Union ship, but even in the real world we see sea faring ships referred to as a "whatever country" ship. Even in the Star Treks we see the ships referred to as Federation ships, even when they operated by Starfleet rather than the UFP government.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Like Starfleet, it military-like, but not like militaries today. Today's militaries are for defense. The 24th & 25th century counterparts have evolved into organizations of exploration that still defend territory.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They don't seem to be doing military operations all that much. My best guess is the Union is kind of Starfleet like though I wouldn't be shocked if they had a military branch that is kind of ran seperatly which means they are not quite as melded as you see in Starfleet.

Maybe this is what the grey uniformed crewmembers do. They could be the actual soldiers.

AFAIK, grey is the only uniform color that hasn’t had a division established for it, amirite? I know blue=command, green=science & medical, red=security, orange=engineering, and purple=Admiralty, but I’m not sure what grey is for.

 

[Ovation]

Is it a military?

Yes.

Uh, no.

Um, yes.

No.

Maybe.

Not sure.

Of course it is.

Is it?

Wait, what was the question?

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh my cock, are we really doing this? It's bad enough this has been done to death, and zombified in regards to Starfleet, but when it comes to the Planetary Union's Fleet, they are definitely, categorically and canonically military. How is this even an issue? It's been stated on screen twice that the Fleet is military and has not yet been contradicted. Fucking Cockasaurus Rex!

The reason why I am unsure about it being a military is the kind of relax manner the characters have even when on the job.

Guess what, there's more to military life than standing at attention, marching, and shouting "YES SIR!" Military personnel can be as laid back and "unprofessional" as anyone in civilian life. Not too long ago there was that story in the news about the US Navy pilots who drew a giant penis in the sky, which definitely would not be out of place in the Planetary Union's Fleet. The military isn't a cult that transforms people into ultra rigid and formal, those who serve are just ordinary people with a stressful job, and they blow off their steam the same way anyone else would. And what we see on Orville is consistent with that mentality.

 

[fireproof78]

Guess what, there's more to military life than standing at attention, marching, and shouting "YES SIR!" Military personnel can be as laid back and "unprofessional" as anyone in civilian life. Not too long ago there was that story about the US Navy pilots who drew a giant penis in the sky, which definitely would not be out of place in the Planetary Union's Fleet. The military isn't a cult that transforms people into ultra rigid and formal, those who serve are just ordinary people with a stressful job, and they blow off their steam the same way anyone else would. And what we see on Orville is consistent with that mentality.

/thread

 

[ISS-Magnum]

From personal experience, I saw the militaries of the twenty-first century, they looked exactly the same. I even met real prototypes of Kelly and Alara.


On the other hand, The Other Show (you understand what I mean) ... huge miscast.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

As far as Starfleet, how many full military organizations allow their people to resign (ala: Worf during the Klingon civil war)?

Anybody who walks into a captains office and says "I resign my commision" gets to spend some time in the brig.

 

[BillJ]

Like Starfleet, it military-like, but not like militaries today. Today's militaries are for defense. The 24th & 25th century counterparts have evolved into organizations of exploration that still defend territory.

For the most part, they are both exactly like modern militaries. Even in Starfleet, you can't just up and quit, there are circumstances where one can be forced to serve. See: Star Trek: The Motion Picture and "The Siege of AR-558".

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

For the most part, they are both exactly like modern militaries. Even in Starfleet, you can't just up and quit, there are circumstances where one can be forced to serve. See: Star Trek: The Motion Picture and "The Siege of AR-558".

Of course, the little known "reserve activation clause™". It just reinforces the importance of reading anything you sign.

I like to think of SF and the PU as more than what we know as military organizations, but certainly having the structure of a military.

 

[nightwind1]

Oh my cock, are we really doing this? It's bad enough this has been done to death, and zombified in regards to Starfleet, but when it comes to the Planetary Union's Fleet, they are definitely, categorically and canonically military. How is this even an issue? It's been stated on screen twice that the Fleet is military and has not yet been contradicted. Fucking Cockasaurus Rex!

Guess what, there's more to military life than standing at attention, marching, and shouting "YES SIR!" Military personnel can be as laid back and "unprofessional" as anyone in civilian life. Not too long ago there was that story in the news about the US Navy pilots who drew a giant penis in the sky, which definitely would not be out of place in the Planetary Union's Fleet. The military isn't a cult that transforms people into ultra rigid and formal, those who serve are just ordinary people with a stressful job, and they blow off their steam the same way anyone else would. And what we see on Orville is consistent with that mentality.

Exactly. People who say that kind of shit "isn't military" have never been in the military. Just like the people complaining about swearing being "non-military". They obviously have never fucking served.

 

[BillJ]

I like to think of SF and the PU as more than what we know as military organizations, but certainly having the structure of a military.

But everything they do, modern militaries do as well. And when it comes right down to it, defense always comes first. To me, that clearly shows they are both defined by their military obligations. Which means they are both the military.

 

[The Wormhole]

I like to think of SF and the PU as more than what we know as military organizations, but certainly having the structure of a military.

Oh my cock. Save this shit for the next time there's an argument about whether Starfleet is military or not. As far as the Planetary Union Fleet is concerned, there's no room for interpretation. It's military. The writers have confirmed this. The characters have confirmed this. The fucking show's creator and showrunner who is also the star has gotten on screen and stated so 100% canonically. Which carries a lot more weight than the fan interpretations of Gene's Divine Intent which the Starfleet argument is built around.

This is a show about the military. That is quite literally the creator's intent of the show. That should be the end of the discussion and the speculation.

 

[Mudd]

Seriously.

There's no point at which anyone associated with The Orville has suggested that the Planetary Union Fleet is anything other than military.

The show is modeled on Star Trek, and Trek fans are therefore predisposed to evaluate it through the lens of Trek's continuity.

But that's not necessary, because there's nothing logical, sensible or customary about the kind of stuff Trek throws around.

• Yes, these folks are in the Navy.
• No, they have no "Prime Directive."

Trek's the odd one out here, not Orville.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It was explicitly established as the military during Alara's introduction in Episode 1, so....