Is the doctor a real person?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Doctor could surely make his case in front of Starfleet Command on his own. They would not likely attempt to alter his program without thinking VERY carefully about it first. And I'm sure Janeway would intervene on his behalf.

Besides, they learned their lesson (re: artificial life) with Data, didn't they?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Doctor has been through some shit, that might have "made" him self aware, sapient and sentient.

But what about a fresh EMH, straight out of the Box?

Remember when Johnny 5 turned those other killer robots into the Three Stooges?

 

[hux]

Besides, they learned their lesson (re: artificial life) with Data, didn't they?

They learnt that recognising sentience in a virtually impossible to replicate android was no skin off their nose. If Data's could be churned out in their thousands like the doctor however, I think they may have made a different decision (they certainly would have deliberated for a lot longer)

Also there is the issue of.....do parts of Data have the potential to become self aware (his knee joint for example)

Nope, probably not

Whereas.....does ANY hologram have the potential to become self aware given the right environment, circumstances

Um yes, probably......which only further complicates the matter and brings the Federation gavel firmly down on.....NO, not sentient

 

[Lance]

The Doctor could surely make his case in front of Starfleet Command on his own. They would not likely attempt to alter his program without thinking VERY carefully about it first. And I'm sure Janeway would intervene on his behalf.

Besides, they learned their lesson (re: artificial life) with Data, didn't they?

It would appear not, given they tried to pull the same trick with Lal only 12 months later.

So the question becomes: why didn't the case of Data v Daystrom Institute set a precedent?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Data was built to be sentient.

Federation service holograms were built to be nonsentient.

I'm guessing that a positronic brain is not a more advance processor. It's more awkward. Impulses and decisions running through a positronic brain cannot take an optimal path because of the random (connections randomly opening and closing) quality of a positronic matrix forcing illogical detours.

Federation service Hololograms are not holographic life. Code living self contained inside light. They are code in a mobile processor or an immobile processor in a wall. Maybe there are situations were code can be alive, but if you write a holomatrix out in long hand out on pieces of paper, it's just chicken scratch and not alive, which is the same you can say of writing your dna out in long hand on paper.

 

[Taelon]

Data's just code too. Instead of being code contained in one type of machine (holo-emitter) Data is code contained in another type of machine (positronic net).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Data doesn't believe that, which is why he refused direct orders to transfer his consciousness onto an external hard drive and back again in Measure of a Man. He believed that even if all the code was intact, that upon returning to his body, that he would be fundamentally different, and not the same person. Data tried to resign from Starfleet and their reply was "#### you, you're property."

Again they keep with cut and paste like extremists when copy and paste should service the requirements of any experiment they would want to do on Data with a duplicate who also might say that he has rights to say "Kiss my shiny perfect beige ass"

Actually?

Did the Android have a perfect bum, or did he have Soong's bum?

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Data's butt was fully functional, that's all we need to know.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How many functions does a butt have?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Three.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did you include cracking walnuts and bouncing quarters?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

No. Girls don't do those things. Your butt can have 5 functions if you want it to though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It would be harder to memorize Morse Code, than to control my sphincter to relase the right sized bubbles in the right order to talk with a submerged bottom.

I've lived with a shower only for almost 6 years.

I miss bath tubs.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I have a bath tub with the shower over it but I cannot stand baths. I have tried this one out twice. So boring just lying there in hot water, bleh.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tub or shub?

It's where I used to read books when they were made out of paper.

What sort of idiot tries to read a kindle in the bath?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I tried reading a book in there, too annoying, where do the elbows go, arms start feeling weird because they are dry and maybe getting chilled while the rest is hot, nothing to rest the book on other than knees which have to dry off first. It's bad.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You make the bath shallow so that you can rest the book on your belly.

Of course, I have moobs now, so maybe it's more difficult than it used to be?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

But I don't have any heating in the bathroom and if it is shallow and not summer I will get cold. I hate being cold.

I could maybe hack the reading if there was an over the bath table deal, designed to put drinks and books on etc.. but it kind of comes down to why? Though that does sound somewhat appealing, especially if there is food.

I remember when I was 17 I was staying somewhere with a VERY deep old style with feet bath, on the 4th floor of an old building with beautiful windows. So you could be in this super lovely bath with the windows open and a view of the sky. I got myself a book (Herman Hesse's The Glass Bead Game, I remember this because it was so awful) and a glass of red wine and a clove cigarette and some chocolate and some nice soap and prepared to have The Bath Experience. I tried really hard to enjoy this but it was all so uncomfortable and boring and every single one of those things, except the soap, would have been more enjoyable having in bed. Or on a really nice chair in front of the fire.

Maybe I would be better at it today, I would need the bath table idea and skip the cigarette and wine, I think I would have a large bowl of m n' m's and some tea and some kind of gossipy book that didn't take any concentration. Or maybe I'd read Dark Passions again but those are out of print and I wouldn't want any bath accidents happening to my copies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Noted. You are not a bath person. No one should try to convert you.

(Margarita paddling pool, complete with a salted rim.)