Is Starfleet Military?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It can be argued that the more utopian and peaceful a society is, the greater the need for a military to defend it against outside aggressors.

Because there will ALWAYS be those who wish to attack you. Might as well be ready for them.

 

[JoseNoodles]

It can be argued that the more utopian and peaceful a society is, the greater the need for a military to defend it against outside aggressors.

Because there will ALWAYS be those who wish to attack you. Might as well be ready for them.

Which is probably why Starfleet vessels and personnel have weapons. There will always be people who equate altruism with weakness, and will try to take what others produce by force.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding the McCoy drafting...

Starfleet may have gotten rid of that 'obscure clause' by the 24th century. Certainly by the Dominion War, since we heard nothing of the sort, and you would think if any war would have necessitated a draft, it'd be that one.


And we know Starfleet can imprison those who don't follow orders... that was Ensign Ro's fate before she appeared on her self titled episode. (Though it could be argued that the severity of her disobedience, resulting in the deaths of other officers, is why she imprisoned.)

 

[Commander Troi]

I need to let you all know how impressed I am (again) with the discussion. I learn so much from this varied, international group of geeks.

Having been through this before, I think this was already best answered on page 1:

For my part, I've always assumed Starfleet combines both military and non-military functions, in a manner consistent with Trek being a space western/opera and the Feds always being surrounded by potential unknowns, if not specific enemies as well. There's a fundamental difference between having a force that can protect you in a military fashion, as needed, and having a militaristic philosophy that governs all aspects of that force. They're not inherently the same thing.

Starfleet is the military defense force of the Federation. It's also the exploratory, scientific, and diplomatic "arm(s)" of the Federation.

@1001001 we all owe you drinks. Let me know if you're ever in Phoenix.

 

[fireproof78]

@1001001 we all owe you drinks. Let me know if you're ever in Phoenix.

Indeed.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

This is an interesting line of thought, since even during the Dominion War there’s never any clear indication that the Federation is involved in conscription/draft, even though it’s mentioned that they’re suffering from a “manpower shortage” during the time of DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight.”

Conscription/draft isn't practised by most "first tier" countries IRL, and for the most part is used to raise/increase the "standing army" which we can be reasonably certain is not part of Starfleet doctrine (as I noted above, this is a widely accepted definition of "not a military").

However, if service to Starfleet was truly that open door, you wouldn’t have Federation ground troops putting phaser blasts through their own feet in order to avoid fighting (“Nor the Battle to the Strong”), you’d just go home or stay home.

Edit: Although, just remembered that Star Trek: TMP does establish that Starfleet Officers do have some sort of service agreement that allows them to be compelled back into service through an "emergency activation clause," since McCoy complains they "drafted me."

Last time I checked, absconding from government service contrary to your service obligation is called "unauthorised absence" or "absent without leave" and doing so during wartime is desertion at best.

The first is generally a internal disciplinary matter within the organisation in question, however the second is generally regarded as a felony though limited prison time (rather than extended prison time or death penalty, both of which are technically an option in some countries including the USA IRL.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Regarding the McCoy drafting...

Starfleet may have gotten rid of that 'obscure clause' by the 24th century.

Or perhaps McCoy was right - it was all Kirk's idea.

 

[dswynne1]

What I don't understand in this entire debate is why "the military" is seen in such a negative light. Yes, it is designed to "kill people and break things", but it is the civilian government that sets the mission statement for military. IRL, I hate it when politicians don't take responsibility for the mission statement THEY set for the armed services. In fact, for all the complaints about the so-called "military industrial complex", you wouldn't have to face such a thing if there is an honest political class that can prevent corporate lobbying efforts from abusing/misusing the purpose of an armed services. But going back to the topic, if there is no such thing as corporations in the 24th century world of STAR TREK, you wouldn't have to worry about lobbies, right? And if so, then the Federation Council is fully in control of Starfleet, yes? You would think that with that in mind, having a "military" wouldn't be a problem, considering that you have Vulcans, Andorians and many other alien powers leery of a human-dominated space fleet, unless they do they due diligence by putting caveats in the Starfleet mission statement. Then again, it does explain why some alien powers, like the Vulcans and Andorians, would still keep their own space fleets operational, just as a precaution. Hmmm.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

if there is no such thing as corporations in the 24th century world of STAR TREK

Actually, there IS such a thing. Corporations still exist in the Trek future.

The Dytallix Mining Corporation, for example (TNG "Conspiracy").

 

[Sci]

Actually, there IS such a thing. Corporations still exist in the Trek future.

The Dytallix Mining Corporation, for example (TNG "Conspiracy").

Hopefully as what we would today call democratically-managed worker-owned co-ops rather than the extractive, exploitative, externalizing, wealth-upwards-redistributing systems they embody today.

 

[fireproof78]

Hopefully as what we would today call democratically-managed worker-owned co-ops rather than the extractive, exploitative, externalizing, wealth-upwards-redistributing systems they embody today.

I feel like that should go without saying in the enlightened 24th century.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And in the litverse, there is a 'Resources Corporation of Deneva'.

 

[Tallguy]

Is Starfleet a corporation?

 

[Citiprime]

You would think that with that in mind, having a "military" wouldn't be a problem, considering that you have Vulcans, Andorians and many other alien powers leery of a human-dominated space fleet, unless they do they due diligence by putting caveats in the Starfleet mission statement. Then again, it does explain why some alien powers, like the Vulcans and Andorians, would still keep their own space fleets operational, just as a precaution. Hmmm.

Why would they be leery of a human-dominated Starfleet?

For both the Vulcans and Andorians, the only reason they were able to either reach peace with their greatest rivals or fundamentally reform their society was because of Starfleet. It is Starfleet that causes all of the founding races of the Federation to put aside their differences and work together. And, presumably, it was Starfleet that took the brunt of the responsibility defending the core worlds of the Federation during the Earth-Romulan War.

Given that backstory, giving humanity and Starfleet the latitude to be at the center of the Federation's exploration/military makes sense, since Starfleet is probably the only defense organization that's trusted by everyone. It would also explain why Earth is at the center of everything.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I rather like the idea that @Christopher propounded in his (excellent) "Rise of the Federation" novels.

He suggested that the early Starfleet was composed of fleets provided by the founding member worlds, and that each of those fleets was responsible for a different area of specialization. He also suggests that the different uniform insignia we saw in TOS were intended not to be different SHIPS, but all of those different 'sub-fleets'.

As per @Christopher's suggestion, here's a breakdown:

- Vulcan Space Central: Research and development. Example: USS Intrepid ("The Immunity Syndrome"). Insignia: IDIC symbol. (We never actually see any of the Intrepid's crew but I'm just guessing that's what they would have worn.)

- United Earth Space Probe Agency: Exploration. Example: USS Enterprise. Insignia: Arrowhead.

- Tellar Space Administration: Logistics and supplies. Example: USS Antares ("Charlie X"). Insignia: Hoof.

- Andorian Empire: Military defense. Example: USS Constellation ("The Doomsday Machine"). Insignia: Pretzel.

- Alpha Centauri Space Research Council: R&D, probably the same as the Vulcans. Example: USS Exeter ("The Omega Glory"). Insignia: Rectangle.

 

[fireproof78]

I rather like the idea that @Christopher propounded in his (excellent) "Rise of the Federation" novels.

He suggested that the early Starfleet was composed of fleets provided by the founding member worlds, and that each of those fleets was responsible for a different area of specialization. He also suggests that the different uniform insignia we saw in TOS were intended not to be different SHIPS, but all of those different 'sub-fleets'.

As per @Christopher's suggestion, here's a breakdown:

- Vulcan Space Central: Research and development. Example: USS Intrepid ("The Immunity Syndrome"). Insignia: IDIC symbol. (We never actually see any of the Intrepid's crew but I'm just guessing that's what they would have worn.)

- United Earth Space Probe Agency: Exploration. Example: USS Enterprise. Insignia: Arrowhead.

- Tellar Space Administration: Logistics and supplies. Example: USS Antares ("Charlie X"). Insignia: Hoof.

- Andorian Empire: Military defense. Example: USS Constellation ("The Doomsday Machine"). Insignia: Pretzel.

- Alpha Centauri Space Research Council: R&D, probably the same as the Vulcans. Example: USS Exeter ("The Omega Glory"). Insignia: Rectangle.

Which is an entirely reasonable breakdown of how to manage different subfleets, or commands, based upon the needs of the larger fleet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which is an entirely reasonable breakdown of how to manage different subfleets, or commands, based upon the needs of the larger fleet.

Exactly. And it's also a handy explanation as to where the newly hatched Federation got its military in the first place. Starfleet had to come from somewhere!

 

[J.T.B.]

So if someone attacks UFP worlds, outposts, starbases or civilians, they shouldn't defend themselves?
If civilian ships happen to respond to alien ships weapons fire by attacking them in turn, that's also armed conflict... so, what? Are the civilian ships at that point no longer civilian and are military ships simply because they defended themselves (as a result of armed conflict initiated by aliens)?

I don't think anyone really thinks that. Besides questions of law and government sanction, there are also issues of what kind of weapons systems and training would be available for a civilian organization. Today, even if you could afford them, advanced systems are strictly controlled.

Space is pretty dangerous in Trek, and unforeseen threats might argue for heavy-duty civilian weaponry. Even so, it seems like you'd want a pretty clear delineation between state and non-state actors, so some freight hauling company doesn't start an interstellar war.

Just because there is armed conflict and SF engages in it for the purpose of defense of the Federation, it doesn't automatically mean SF is a military organisation.

Starfleet would be more akin to a public service organisation such as the police, firefighters, humanitarian aid, science and technology R&D, intelligence, exploration, colonisation, etc. all rolled into one.

Real world military organizations do or have done all of those things.

There was a time when the default condition for military organizations was "in mothballs," with a minimum core staff, ready to activate when needed for war. Those days are long gone.

Once you have committed to funding and maintaining a sizeable peacetime military force, you find there are all kinds of neat things they can do, in peacetime. In war, of course, everything changes.

I sometimes describe Starfleet as a "national security organisation" that is essentially what the US Coast Guard -- a multi-role, mostly "aid to civil power" orientated organisation -- could easily have ended up as if they had retained their "blue water" capacity rather than the bulk of it being transferred to the Navy.

The US Revenue Marine/Cutter Service was never intended to be the national sea-fighting arm, though. Because of the part-time nature of navies at the time, revenue vessels were useful to fill gaps for the navy, but the Treasury Department did not have the supply chain to deploy them for long periods away from home port. Besides the obvious command and control issues, that was a big consideration in transferring cutters to the navy in time of conflict.

Regarding the McCoy drafting...

Starfleet may have gotten rid of that 'obscure clause' by the 24th century. Certainly by the Dominion War, since we heard nothing of the sort, and you would think if any war would have necessitated a draft, it'd be that one.

When McCoy said "drafted" it was as a euphemism for his reserve status being activated. Nothing like conscription.

 

[fireproof78]

Once you have committed to funding and maintaining a sizeable peacetime military force, you find there are all kinds of neat things they can do, in peacetime. In war, of course, everything changes.

Yup. It's pretty amazing all the peaceful activities and supports the different branches of the military do that don't involve war. Almost like they can do a lot of different tasks.

 

[The Wormhole]

I remember one time after a particularly nasty blizzard, the military was called in to plow the roads because the city's snow plow drivers were that overwhelmed. Something tells me if Star Trek ever showed Starfleet plowing roads, the peanut gallery would jump up and down claiming that proves they aren't military.