Is Starfleet Military?

[Prometheus59650]

This thread was suggested by a mod, so as not to clog the "Controversial Opinions" thread. So, is it?

I say absolutely, and the regulations and ranks and all that are basically irrelevant. As to why? That you can chalk to organizational discipline.

Now, Starfleet certainly does have OTHER functions, and one can argue that those others are its primary functions given that Starfleet doesn't go looking for fights. (Usually) But it's Starfleet ships that are sent out to show the flag to other powers and it's Starfleet that fights the wars that come to the door.

 

[fireproof78]

My biggest question is if Starfleet is not the military of the Federation then who is? Who is called to defend Federation boarders, interests and repel aggressive acts?

It's fine if Starfleet isn't. Just who is?

 

[Gul Sengosts]

Space Force.

 

[Prometheus59650]

Space Force.

They so ripped off Star Trek.

 

[Nyotarules]

My biggest question is if Starfleet is not the military of the Federation then who is? Who is called to defend Federation boarders, interests and repel aggressive acts?

It's fine if Starfleet isn't. Just who is?

Ghostbusters!

 

[Unicron]

* grabs popcorn *

For my part, I've always assumed Starfleet combines both military and non-military functions, in a manner consistent with Trek being a space western/opera and the Feds always being surrounded by potential unknowns, if not specific enemies as well. There's a fundamental difference between having a force that can protect you in a military fashion, as needed, and having a militaristic philosophy that governs all aspects of that force. They're not inherently the same thing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Have we already forgotten the very first episode of PIC, when Admiral Picard is described as one of Starfleet's top MILITARY strategists?

My biggest question is if Starfleet is not the military of the Federation then who is? Who is called to defend Federation boarders, interests and repel aggressive acts?

It's fine if Starfleet isn't. Just who is?

Brian Brophy

 

[Nyotarules]

Ok I'll bite, the makers of Trek wanted to have their cake and not only eat but party on it! TOS Starfleet was a combined service, TNG Trek swallowed the Roddenberry koolaid and went down the 'Starfleet is not a military' road. I don't care what Starfleet thinks or says it is, until some other organisation fights their bloody wars, until they stop disciplining staff under court martial then their actions speak louder than their words. And they are the in universe UFP space Navy, Army and Marine.

 

[Oddish]

Weapons on the NX-01 were not an afterthought.

Maybe, but they left Earth with their primary armament (phase cannons) offline and their spatial torpedoes about as accurate as an 18th century musket.

MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?

C-IN-C: Well, I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs would be unaffected, Captain, but...

What's left? The military. Even if you couch it as a "Defense" program, it serves the same function.

There had just been, as Picard said in "First Contact" (the episode), "decades of war" with the Klingons. So maybe in the 23rd century, Starfleet was a little more militaristic. As Janeway said, they were... "a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers."

 

[Lord Garth]

Starfleet is a military that wanted to act like it wasn't during TNG.

But a better example of a military in space is the 2000s Battlestar Galatica. If I'm in the mood for "Space Military!!!", I'll watch that.

 

[Oddish]

I guess it really depends on how you define "military".

If "military" means "the organization that a given polity uses to fight its wars", Starfleet is a military.

If it means "an organization created and equipped primarily for combat", Starfleet is not a military.

Since I see a military as a fighting force, I call Starfleet para-military, though semi-military or quasi-military might be more appropriate.

 

[1001001]

There is no God.

 

[Oddish]

There is no God.

I'll debate you on that subject until the next cold day in hell, but (as you like to remind others) it's not relevant to this topic.

 

[1001001]

I'll debate you on that subject until the next cold day in hell, but (as you like to remind others) it's not relevant to this topic.

Bravo. You really nailed the point of my post.



PS: this is a bad habit of yours, dropping your point of view in (even though here it’s completely off the mark), then backing off with “but that’s off topic”. You’ve been spoken to about this before.

Stop doing this or you’ll get an official warning.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's also important (once again) to point out that the Earth Starfleet and Federation Starfleet are separate organizations.

The former is not military - Archer says so in ENT just before the NX-01 sets out in pursuit of the Xindi. When he and Admiral Forrest are discussing having the MACOS on board, Forrest asks if Archer minds having the military around, and Archer replies he has no problem with non-Starfleet personnel.

So before the Federation, MACO forces fulfill all military functions. Once the Federation Starfleet is formed, they take over that role.

And speaking of the MACOS, it would seem that Balthazar Edison was on the NX-01 during the run of the show...we just never saw him. (He probably got a battlefield commission as an officer and took over command of the NX-01's MACO force after Major Hayes' death.)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This thread was suggested by a mod, so as not to clog the "Controversial Opinions" thread. So, is it?

I say absolutely, and the regulations and ranks and all that are basically irrelevant. As to why? That you can chalk to organizational discipline.

Now, Starfleet certainly does have OTHER functions, and one can argue that those others are its primary functions given that Starfleet doesn't go looking for fights. (Usually) But it's Starfleet ships that are sent out to show the flag to other powers and it's Starfleet that fights the wars that come to the door.

Great! A dedicated thread for this topic.

I'll re-post--

Starfleet vessels are the military (security / defense / offense) branch of the Federation. As established--for a reason--in TOS, Stafleet ships are not research ships that just so happened to have a weapons system. They have patrolled areas, engaged in battles, defended the Federation borders (and those of parties of interest) and as Kirk pointed out in "By Any Other Name""

"The Federation has handled foreign invasions before."

..and "Errand of Mercy":

"I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."

Kirk--of all captains--did not misspeak when describing himself in that way. Yes, Starfleet explores, but its under the aegis of a military body--exactly the way it was meant established in TOS. Its not Bill Nye in Space with Pepper Spray. Handling foreign invasions (think about what that means) is not the job of the kind of mythical Starfleet myth pushed with the development of TNG.

You need crews and technology capable of warfare and train for it, which we learn in "The Ultimate Computer" when Commodore Wesley enlists the 1701 into war games (to test the M-5).

No organization would be "created to seve a non-military" mission if one of their functions allows General Order 24, described by Kirk (in "A Taste of Armageddon") as:

"You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven."

That's not some decision (or the kind of ship designed to execute it) made after months or years of hand-wringing in some U.N. council-like setting. It was a common power consciously granted to Starfleet ships, which is as much a lethal power (obviously implying mass destruction of a civilization) as the Death Star. There's no part of any of the quotes that renders Starfleet into a "non-military" organization.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Then again, do we ever hear about General Order 24 outside of "A Taste of Armageddon"? I always suspected that Kirk was making that order up, in order to frighten the Eminians. They'd have no way of knowing it was a fake order...

 

[1001001]

You know, it’s almost as if the franchise contradicts itself on occasion throughout its 56 year run…

 

[Jedman67]

Starfleet is definitely a military. In the TNG era it was largely a "peacetime military" where research, exploration and diplomacy took primacy and combat essentially limited to self-defense.
By DS9 and FC, with the Cardassian, Borg and Dominion threats coming into play, Starfleet ramped up its combat focus and training. Even then, the combat focus was born of necessity, not being the primary mission of exploration.

Yeah sure, TNG had a few episodes that broke the rule as did DS9 and VOY, but you can hardly expect historical documentaries to maintain consistency and accuracy across the various franchise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Starfleet is definitely a military. In the TNG era it was largely a "peacetime military" where research, exploration and diplomacy took primacy and combat essentially limited to self-defense.

Just like most real-world military forces.