Is Star Trek homophobic?

[JarodRussell]

I don't know. Do you hate heterosexuals you know who are just as in-your-face about their sexual orientation?

I do in fact. Although I don't know many who are like that. Maybe it's because being hetero is considered "normal", so there aren't many who feel the need to make such a fuzz about it, I don't know. The gay people I know are pretty aggressive about it, and happen to fulfil kinda every stereotype you can think of.

 

[The Mole]

I always thought it would have been good to even see in passing a same-sex couple. Or even a reference to one even once. But then I don't let this sort of thing ruin Star Trek for me.

Let's look at this logically ... There have been 628 episodes of Star Trek. Counting The Cage, that's 80 episodes of the original series, 22 Animated, 178 of the Next Gen, 176 of DS9, and 172 of Voyager. There's also 11 movies.

Not once has there been even a passing reference in the background of single scene showing a same-sex couple. And yet every main character of every version of Trek has been in a relationship at least once. Even the robot and the puddle of jell-o on DS9 got some nookie.

Seems pretty obvious to me they have a policy against same-sex couples.

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

 

[Nick086]

I think a lot of it has to do with the viewers and the people upstairs in Paramount. I think most trekkies are homophobic and there are some that aren't, but just wouldn't want to see a gay, bi, or Lesbian character on a Star Trek series. There has been gay characters in Star Trek novels, but what you can't see won't offend anyone. The writer wouldn't go into detail about the relationship, dating or kissing between same gender characters.

 

[JarodRussell]

LOL, I'm gonna get hated for this, but... maybe they found a cure for it. Some argue that sexual attraction towards anything else than the opposite sex (that includes animals, children, even objects like cars, and of course the same sex) is a disorder. It also seems unnatural because it serves no purpose (the purpose of all animal instincts being: surval and reproduction). You could argue that by the 24th century nobody cares, but maybe it's so easy "to get rid of" that everyone does it.

 

[Sci]

LOL, I'm gonna get hated for this, but... maybe they found a cure for it.

How can you cure something that isn't a disorder or disease?

Some argue that sexual attraction towards anything else than the opposite sex (that includes animals, children, even objects like cars, and of course the same sex) is a disorder.

Yes, some do. But homosexuality is not in the DSMV and hasn't been for decades. Anyone arguing that homosexuality is a disorder is wrong and bigoted -- and so is anyone equating homosexuality with pedophilia, like you just did.

It also seems unnatural because it serves no purpose (the purpose of all animal instincts being: surval and reproduction).

Says who? Homosexuality occurs in numerous species throughout the animal kingdom and occurs in steady, consistent percentages across all human cultures. Rationally, a disorder would not occur at such a high and consistent rate; evolution would have weeded it out long ago. The only logical conclusion is that it is beneficial for a species's ability to survive and reproduce to have a predisposition for a certain percentage of its members to end up homosexual. The most obvious advantage being, of course, that such individuals can, at least in human societies, devote their resources towards helping rear the children of their kin, thereby decreasing those children's need to compete for resources and increasing their chances of surviving and reproducing.

In other words: Evolution "recognizes" that it is sometimes better for the whole's ability to reproduce if a few do not.

 

[The Wormhole]

A lack of gay characters wouldn't necessarily mean Trek is homophobic, but the fact the only time actual homosexuality is seen in Trek is to show how different the Mirror Universe is is somewhat offensive.

 

[Agenda]

LOL, I'm gonna get hated for this, but... maybe they found a cure for it. Some argue that sexual attraction towards anything else than the opposite sex (that includes animals, children, even objects like cars, and of course the same sex) is a disorder. It also seems unnatural because it serves no purpose (the purpose of all animal instincts being: surval and reproduction). You could argue that by the 24th century nobody cares, but maybe it's so easy "to get rid of" that everyone does it.

It's actually a very interesting question, and one I've thought about. Given the Federation's laws against genetic engineering, it seems implausible that it would allow parents to "ensure" their children were born straight.

However - and this is a more disturbing question - what if the purging of homosexuality was allowed because it was thought of as "correcting a genetic flaw"?

 

[JarodRussell]

Yes, some do. But homosexuality is not in the DSMV and hasn't been for decades. Anyone arguing that homosexuality is a disorder is wrong and bigoted -- and so is anyone equating homosexuality with pedophilia, like you just did.

Just don't overreact when somebody does a comparison with pedophilia. There are people who feel sexually attracted to children but never harm anyone. There are also heterosexuals who rape others. That aggressive behavior has nothing to do with the sexual orientation.

However - and this is a more disturbing question - what if the purging of homosexuality was allowed because it was thought of as "correcting a genetic flaw"?

Would there be a downside? It's done today already in a way. Sex changes for people who recognize they are born "in the wrong body". And if something like "curing" homosexuality would be ever possible (please relax, people, it's just a silly thought experiment), it would be a decision left to the individual person, not something parents or doctors decide for you. It's the 24th century, nobody actually cares, but it's totally up to the individual.

As for correcting a genetic flaw, I think they do that in Star Trek on a regular basis. Cancer, for instance. I don't think they'd treat it every time someone actually gets it, I think they'd find a way to get rid of the genetic cause for it before the children are born.

 

[Sci]

However - and this is a more disturbing question - what if the purging of homosexuality was allowed because it was thought of as "correcting a genetic flaw"?

Would there be a downside? It's done today already in a way. Sex changes for people who recognize they are born "in the wrong body".

That's not curing homosexuality, though, because being transsexual is not the same thing.

Here's the difference: A transsexual is someone who recognizes that their inner identity is that of the opposite sex than which they were biologically born with and so alters their biology to fit that inner identity.

A homosexual is someone whose inner identity is of the sex they were born with, but with their persistent sex of sexual attraction and romantic love falling to the same sex instead of the opposite sex.

In other words: Someone who gets a sex change operation may or may not also be homosexual. But, for instance, a person born female who decides to become a male may have initially been, and remain after the sex change, interested in men for sex and love.

So it's really not accurate to compare the two issues. They're overlapping in some areas, but quite different.

And if something like "curing" homosexuality would be ever possible (please relax, people, it's just a silly thought experiment), it would be a decision left to the individual person, not something parents or doctors decide for you.

I've never met a gay person who would want that part of themselves changed. It's just who they are.

 

[NX-01]

I always thought it would have been good to even see in passing a same-sex couple. Or even a reference to one even once. But then I don't let this sort of thing ruin Star Trek for me.

Let's look at this logically ... There have been 628 episodes of Star Trek. Counting The Cage, that's 80 episodes of the original series, 22 Animated, 178 of the Next Gen, 176 of DS9, and 172 of Voyager. There's also 11 movies.

Not once has there been even a passing reference in the background of single scene showing a same-sex couple. And yet every main character of every version of Trek has been in a relationship at least once. Even the robot and the puddle of jell-o on DS9 got some nookie.

Seems pretty obvious to me they have a policy against same-sex couples.

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

 

[Nick086]

Let's look at this logically ... There have been 628 episodes of Star Trek. Counting The Cage, that's 80 episodes of the original series, 22 Animated, 178 of the Next Gen, 176 of DS9, and 172 of Voyager. There's also 11 movies.

Not once has there been even a passing reference in the background of single scene showing a same-sex couple. And yet every main character of every version of Trek has been in a relationship at least once. Even the robot and the puddle of jell-o on DS9 got some nookie.

Seems pretty obvious to me they have a policy against same-sex couples.

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

Yep, they also had shock therapy. The guy that did the psycho movies did shock therapy. He was gay/bi.

 

[Agenda]

Let's look at this logically ... There have been 628 episodes of Star Trek. Counting The Cage, that's 80 episodes of the original series, 22 Animated, 178 of the Next Gen, 176 of DS9, and 172 of Voyager. There's also 11 movies.

Not once has there been even a passing reference in the background of single scene showing a same-sex couple. And yet every main character of every version of Trek has been in a relationship at least once. Even the robot and the puddle of jell-o on DS9 got some nookie.

Seems pretty obvious to me they have a policy against same-sex couples.

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

Why must the homophobes be placated? What if the racists had been placated in TOS? What if you had no Uhura and no Sulu and the entire bridge was white, and you only had safe "metaphorical episodes" like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield to deal with the "racial stuff"?

 

[NX-01]

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

Why must the homophobes be placated? What if the racists had been placated in TOS? What if you had no Uhura and no Sulu and the entire bridge was white, and you only had safe "metaphorical episodes" like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield to deal with the "racial stuff"?

Please don't mis-understand me, I am not saying that homophobes should be placated. I am simply pionting out that there was at least one episode that touched on sexuality (another would be the Dax episode but I don't think that counts).

Personally I don't think that Star Trek is homophobic.

 

[The Mole]

Let's look at this logically ... There have been 628 episodes of Star Trek. Counting The Cage, that's 80 episodes of the original series, 22 Animated, 178 of the Next Gen, 176 of DS9, and 172 of Voyager. There's also 11 movies.

Not once has there been even a passing reference in the background of single scene showing a same-sex couple. And yet every main character of every version of Trek has been in a relationship at least once. Even the robot and the puddle of jell-o on DS9 got some nookie.

Seems pretty obvious to me they have a policy against same-sex couples.

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

And I suppose there is that Voyager episode where they meet a race with three genders. The males, females and the "in-between" race. I'm not sure if that was more of a metaphor for the equal rights movement that women went through though in the 60's and 70's or the push for more equal rights for Gays over the last few decades.

Not really the same as what we have been discussing, but it's an interesting thought if you believe this episode was a touch on a mixture of the two. A way for Star Trek to acknowledge the struggle of these "minorites" without overly offending those with an outdated veiw on society.

 

[NX-01]

I know what you mean. Not even on an alien planet. The nearest we got a same-sex kiss between Dax and the wife of one of her former hosts. Ah well, I'll just have life in the world of literature for this sort of thing. lol

I was gonna mention that. There an episode of TNG about an A-Sexual spieces; in the episode The Outcast.

The J'naii are an androgynous species that view the expression of any sort of male or female gender, and especially sexual liaisons, as a sexual perversion. According to their official doctrine, the J'naii had evolved beyond gender and thus view the idea of male/female sexuality as primitive. Those among the J'naii who view themselves as possessing gender are ridiculed, outcast, and forced to undergo "psychotectic therapy" - The plot break down from Wikipedia.

OK it wasn't actually a gay episode, but it not that much different on how some view Homosexuals. In the 60's/70's people were sent to undergo "psychotectic therapy" as a "cure" to Homosexuallity. Could this not have been an attempt to touch on the subject with out causing offence to Homophobic people or without being to blatant about it?

And I suppose there is that Voyager episode where they meet a race with three genders. The males, females and the "in-between" race. I'm not sure if that was more of a metaphor for the equal rights movement that women went through though in the 60's and 70's or the push for more equal rights for Gays over the last few decades.

Not really the same as what we have been discussing, but it's an interesting thought if you believe this episode was a touch on a mixture of the two. A way for Star Trek to acknowledge the struggle of these "minorites" without overly offending those with an outdated veiw on society.

And there was the episode in ENT called Cogenitor. That was about 3 genders and how the cogenitor was treat like a second class citizens. Again not a gay issue but an issue of discrimination.

I think Star Trek has touched upon the issue of gay rights. It may bot have been in your face but it's there if you look for it. Would a mention or scene with two gay people make that much difference to the franchise, I doubt it. It would still have been very popular, and still made a lot of money.

 

[DonIago]

It would make a difference to those of us who feel that a franchise we have a great deal of affection for because of its optimistic nature and that claims to embrace social equality has yet to portray a contemporary social issue and give us someone we can identify with on a fundamental level without resulting to metaphor...unless we want to believe that gay people only exist in "evil" universes in the future. How flattering.

 

[Stoek]

I think that Star Trek in it's television and movie incarnations is more guilty of being timid than anything else. This is of course all too common with most mass marketed things. But the joy of Trek to me is that while there may be limits on what we are shown on the screen, even limits to what might appear on the printed page, there is no limit within our own imaginations. And many people have been inspired by Star Trek to imagine a world where each person is considered a whole person not merely a percentage of one.

 

[JustKate]

I'd agree with Stoek that what the franchise is mostly guilty of is timidity - not admirable, but not the same as homophobia, either. There aren't a lot of positive gay role models in the shows and movies (though there are in some of the books), but then again, there aren't any negative ones, either.

 

[Agenda]

but then again, there aren't any negative ones, either.

Like Intendent Kira? The bi woman just happens to be from the evil universe.

 

[JustKate]

^ Well, OK - I'll give you Intendent Kira. Although I wouldn't say she was so much gay or bi as she was predatory. The woman had NO discretion. I honestly don't think the intention was to show an evil lesbian. I think it was to show someone who was just...debauched - like Rome just before the fall.