Is ST:ID Not Canon Anymore According to the New Continuity?

[Franklin]

I don't think so. What exactly was there to ignore in TMP that they didn't want in TWOK? Kirk was still an admiral, the Enterprise was still refitted and Spock was true to his word about not wanting to remain on Vulcan. The story of TMP was all but finished and what new crew members we could have gotten disappeared in the end leaving just the original crew. Nothing was really abandoned.

In the case of Star Trek Beyond, they're abandoning A LOT of things that Into Darkness introduced. The conflict with the Klingons, Carol Marcus, portable transwarp beaming devices and curing death itself. I only say they're important because, duh. THE FILM MADE THEM IMPORTANT. How can you ask us to take anything seriously if none of it is going to matter?

TOS was not a serial. There may have been three or four within-episode references to events in other episodes, maybe not even that many. TWOK, TSFS, and TVH made a nice trilogy, but they were the exception, not the rule. The TNG movies didn't reference each other, either.

The Klingons, Marcus, transwarp beaming, and "curing" death are easily explained away.
-- They are in a Cold War with the Klingons. At any time during the real US-USSR Cold War there were people in the Pentagon calling war inevitable and times when the conflict did heat up. But war didn't happen and flare ups cooled down. In that ebb and flow, the rest of life went on and other interesting things happened.
-- Marcus obviously transferred off the Enterprise some time during the first two-and-a-half years of the mission. Maybe they'll be a throwaway line to that effect in STB (if it serves anything relevant to the story), or we just live with the assumption that Kirk has had yet another relationship (if there even was one) go sour.
-- Transwarp beaming happened twice. Both were exceptional circumstances. Yes, the technology exists, but it's easy to say it's probably still too problematic to be used regularly and reliably in the fleet. Could be Kirk, Scotty, and Khan had a fair chance of never rematerializing, but took the risk under the circumstances.
-- We don't know "how dead" Kirk was. People are "brought back" today. It's also quite likely that what McCoy did was extraordinary, and could not be something replicated in a way to say a "cure" for death had been found.

Explanations abound!

 

[Jeyl]

In ST V Enterprise got to the center of the Galaxy in a couple of hours, so what, Voyager should have been stuck in the Delta Quadrant for a day, tops?

You think Star Trek V was ignored because the broken Enterprise A somehow got to the center of the galaxy in a couple of hours? No. It was ignored because it betrayed everything about the characters and the setting all for the sake of (And this is a point everyone here is using) wanting to tell it's own story. You remember how in Star Trek III when the crew were willing to throw away their careers and face potential criminal charges in order to help Kirk bring Spock back? That made sense because the crew have grown loyal to Kirk over the years and that loyalty continued in Star Trek IV. But Star Trek V doesn't want you to believe that. They depict the crew as being so selfish that they're willing to mutiny against Kirk just for having some undisclosed pain in their life taken away. Not mind control, not some delusional influence. Just an effective therapy session.

And that's the gist of it. Why care about anything these characters have been through if that doesn't fit with the story they wanted to tell?

 

[dahj]

And that's the gist of it.

Yeah, you lost me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The crew has "mutinied" before. Its a plot device that allows our main characters to be heroes. The crew being under Sybok's influence is the least of STV sins.

 

[Franklin]

You think Star Trek V was ignored because the broken Enterprise A somehow got to the center of the galaxy in a couple of hours? No. It was ignored because it betrayed everything about the characters and the setting all for the sake of (And this is a point everyone here is using) wanting to tell it's own story. You remember how in Star Trek III when the crew were willing to throw away their careers and face potential criminal charges in order to help Kirk bring Spock back? That made sense because the crew have grown loyal to Kirk over the years and that loyalty continued in Star Trek IV. But Star Trek V doesn't want you to believe that. They depict the crew as being so selfish that they're willing to mutiny against Kirk just for having some undisclosed pain in their life taken away. Not mind control, not some delusional influence. Just an effective therapy session.

And that's the gist of it. Why care about anything these characters have been through if that doesn't fit with the story they wanted to tell?

It's been more than a while since I've seen (or thought of) TFF, but my impression has always been that Sybok was exercising at least some form of mind control or brainwashing over those he affected. His skill was in finding what made them susceptible to it and preying on that. But like I said, it's been a while.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always assumed that the reason the Enterprise was able to reach the center of the galaxy so quickly in STV was because Sybok helped upgrade the engines. (He may be a fanatic, but he's still a Vulcan, with all the knowledge that implies.) In fact, in the novelization, this is exactly what happens.

 

[Ovation]

I always assumed that the reason the Enterprise was able to reach the center of the galaxy so quickly in STV was because Sybok helped upgrade the engines. (He may be a fanatic, but he's still a Vulcan, with all the knowledge that implies.) In fact, in the novelization, this is exactly what happens.

Still doesn't explain why Voyager didn't have such mods a century later. Maybe they didn't want to break the speed limit TNG came up with.

It's entertainment, not a code of law or ethics. (Not aiming at you, just the general idea that rigorous consistency is required in entertainment.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Enterprise was "upgraded" by the Kelvans in TOS for the journey to the Andromeda Galaxy. Apparently this upgrade was forgotten soon afterwards.

 

[shapeshifter]

Still doesn't explain why Voyager didn't have such mods a century later.

I always assumed that the reason the Enterprise was able to reach the center of the galaxy so quickly in STV was because Sybok helped upgrade the engines.

An idea reinforced by TNG episode The N'th Degree. Presumably the same aliens which imprisoned the god thing on Sha Ka Ree used similar mental powers to teach Barkly that It had used to reach and manipulate Sybok.

OT: STID is Canon.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think so. What exactly was there to ignore in TMP that they didn't want in TWOK? Kirk was still an admiral, the Enterprise was still refitted and Spock was true to his word about not wanting to remain on Vulcan. The story of TMP was all but finished and what new crew members we could have gotten disappeared in the end leaving just the original crew. Nothing was really abandoned.

Read some old Best of Trek's, there were a few letters from fans upset that TMP had been ignored by Wrath of Khan. Same kind of complaints you're making here.

In the case of Star Trek Beyond, they're abandoning A LOT of things that Into Darkness introduced. The conflict with the Klingons, Carol Marcus, portable transwarp beaming devices and curing death itself. I only say they're important because, duh. THE FILM MADE THEM IMPORTANT. How can you ask us to take anything seriously if none of it is going to matter?

Klingons are always a threat in the Trekverse. Portable transwarp beaming was taken care of in ID (confiscated from Scotty, weaponized by Section 31, whose base is then destroyed rendering it moot). The only follow up to "Magic blood" I can think of is Kirk turning bad as a result, which while interesting is hardly as essential path to take. Carol Marcus is conspicuous by her absence, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the movie mentions that she's on maternity leave.

Into Darkness ended with the Enterprise warping off on a five-year mission into deep space. As far as I can tell, Beyond is following up on that promise 100%

 

[Paul Weaver]

Kirk has no idea Carol is pregnant, and why would he - in an epic twist it's Keenser's son.

Given the "homages" (Khan in 2 + 12, ship blowing up in 3 + 13, whales in 4 + 14), I'm surprised they didn't use a band fronted by Phil Collins as the music.

-- Transwarp beaming happened twice. Both were exceptional circumstances. Yes, the technology exists, but it's easy to say it's probably still too problematic to be used regularly and reliably in the fleet. Could be Kirk, Scotty, and Khan had a fair chance of never rematerializing, but took the risk under the circumstances.

Yes, both were exceptional circumstances. Bok's use of it was dangerous (although no reason why you couldn't use it to beam photon torpedoes onto shielded Romulan or Dominion ships), and the dominion technology (used by Eris and Dukat in "The Jem'Hadar and "Covenant" respectively) presumably couldn't be salvaged from Empok Nor.

No sign of the technology being used later in the series, nor did we see Batmobile armour in Nemesis. Trek has always introduced ridiculously magical technologies and then dropped them. Often the modern authors write around it most of the vanishing technology can be explained -- the same thing happened with STID too, many plot holes being fixed (why praxis had exploded, why Khan didn't look like Khan of old etc)

 

[Phily B]

Faraci is a really bad journalist and Polygon is a clickbait site which leads to topics like this.

 

[TRON JA307020]

It's still canon. Apart from that guy who pretended to be the legendary badass Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

Funny.

Agreed its still canon. There is no reason for the crew to discuss the previous events from 2.5 years ago though. They are on a new adventure.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"It's true. All of it."

Oops, whong JJ Abrams movie

 

[Jeyl]

-- They are in a Cold War with the Klingons. At any time during the real US-USSR Cold War there were people in the Pentagon calling war inevitable and times when the conflict did heat up. But war didn't happen and flare ups cooled down. In that ebb and flow, the rest of life went on and other interesting things happened.

Would have been nice if any of that was conveyed in the actual movie instead of one guy going "I don't like Klingons so I'm going to deal with them."

-- Marcus obviously transferred off the Enterprise some time during the first two-and-a-half years of the mission. Maybe they'll be a throwaway line to that effect in STB (if it serves anything relevant to the story), or we just live with the assumption that Kirk has had yet another relationship (if there even was one) go sour.

It's not really that obvious if we haven't seen the movie. And since when do throw away lines make for good story telling?

-- Transwarp beaming happened twice. Both were exceptional circumstances. Yes, the technology exists, but it's easy to say it's probably still too problematic to be used regularly and reliably in the fleet. Could be Kirk, Scotty, and Khan had a fair chance of never rematerializing, but took the risk under the circumstances.

Three times.
1. Delta Vega to the Enterprise
2. Beaming from Titan to the Narada in orbit around Earth
3. Khan beaming to Kronos

Now I know what you're thinking. "#2 wasn't Transwarp beaming!". It was. If you watch the movie when Spock beams down to Vulcan, he orders the ship maintain orbit because, hey. That's transporter range. When the planet starts collapsing, the crew warns that if the Enterprise stays in orbit they may not be able to escape. But they've got to stay or else they won't get Spock back. If the Enterprise can beam people across a whole solar system... why did the ship need to stay in orbit around Vulcan?

And saying that Transwarp beaming is too risky doesn't even make sense when you take into consideration that it has killed... no one. Even the transporter on it's own without any technical problems HAS KILLED PEOPLE, and yet the crew still continue to use it without ever once thinking the unit itself is a risk.

-- We don't know "how dead" Kirk was.

Nope, he was very dead. When you take Spock's reaction and McCoy's resignation into account, there was deader than a doornail Normally when people come back from death, it's usually thanks to doctors who do their best to get their vital functions rolling again. McCoy doesn't even try to do anything.

Explanations abound!

I believe a more appropriate phrasing would be 'Speculations abound'. No one has ever said Transwarp Beaming was 'risky' technology, we don't know yet why Carol left the Enterprise and no one ever said that Kirk was 'only mostly dead' or that McCoy performs his own miracle that cannot be replicated.

 

[M'Sharak]

Three times.
1. Delta Vega to the Enterprise
2. Beaming from Titan to the Narada in orbit around Earth
3. Khan beaming to Kronos

Now I know what you're thinking. "#2 wasn't Transwarp beaming!". It was. If you watch the movie when Spock beams down to Vulcan, he orders the ship maintain orbit because, hey. That's transporter range. When the planet starts collapsing, the crew warns that if the Enterprise stays in orbit they may not be able to escape. But they've got to stay or else they won't get Spock back. If the Enterprise can beam people across a whole solar system... why did the ship need to stay in orbit around Vulcan?

#2 wasn't transwarp beaming; it was simple long-distance intrasystem transport of the sort we saw Scotty describing on Delta Vega, before he was told by oldSpock that he himself would in the future solve the transwarp problem.

It's right there, in the script and on the screen.

It was much longer-distance than what common practice dictated to be the limit of standard transport, true, but it's perfectly clear from dialogue in ST09 that Scotty had already had the theory worked out and had conducted experimental transports using the technique. (It was also clear from dialogue that one such experiment gone wrong was what resulted in Scotty being assigned to Delta Vega.) The transwarp formula (developed by futureScotty and furnished to presentScotty by oldSpock) was not employed during the Titan-to-Earth orbit transport.

The business you mention concerning Spock being beamed off Vulcan isn't especially pertinent to the question of transwarp or long-distance beaming, other than perhaps as a way of emphasizing the "according-to-Starfleet Manual" thinking re: "standard transporter range".

 

[Jeyl]

I disagree. Scotty used Transwarp to beam Kirk and Spock onto the Narada. Whatever Scotty had in mind for that so-called 'intrasystem' thing, it was rendered completely obsolete when he was given the Transwarp Equation. With the equation, Scotty had something he not only understood, but also something that worked because both he and Kirk RE-APPEARED. Why would Scotty choose to use his 'intrasystem' beaming when he knows now that Transwarp beaming actually works? Khan didn't use a more 'advanced' version of intrasystem beaming. He used Transwarp beaming!

It's like the Grappling Hook and the Space Jump from Super Metroid. You need the hook to get from one area to another and it can be quite cumbersome. The moment you get the space jump however, there is no reason at all to continue using the grappling hook since you can essentially fly with no effort at all. That's what Transwarp beaming was to Scotty's intrasystem beaming.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Did "Khan" use transwarp beaming? Or did he beam up to a waiting shuttle, use NuTrek Warp to be at Kronos (sic) in 10 minutes, then beam down?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ As far as we know, Khan beamed directly to Kronos. We never saw him use a shuttle to facilitate the process.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Foster's novelization used that explanation.