From believing she knows best to believing she knows best?
Is Spectacle better than character development?
- Thread starter T'Boggan
- Start date
From believing she knows best to believing she knows best?
Disco's character development is a vase of pretty flowers that smell bad. 
Tom Paris went through Burnhams character arc in a single episode.
Which is about as stupid and contrived as it gets. Settle him in so there's nothing unsafe the writers need to worry about. Yippee
You just think it's stupid and contrieved as it gets, because you don't like Tom Paris. So, naturally, you look for things to rationalize and justify your opinion.
#vgerlogic
You just think it's stupid and contrieved as it gets, because you don't like Tom Paris. So, naturally, you look for things to rationalize and justify your opinion.
#vgerlogic
Actually, Tom Paris and Tuvok are the only characters on Voyager I care about.
So try again.
To be fair, there was always a sense it was hanging over him, even seven years later. But it was very much a case of extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures...he is half way between maquis and Starfleet, and neither liked him much to begin with. Except for Tilly. I mean Harry.
Right...I LIKED Paris, but to say he received a ton of growth and development is ridiculous.
He was one of the only relatable characters on the show.
Fifteen episodes or the fifteen that featured on to the level DSC did burnham? Cos there’s a truckload by one of those metrics. By the kinder on DSC metric, that still leaves Benjamin Sisko, B’Ellana Torres, (pretty much any of the maquis in voyager really, plus Tom) Maybe Odo...Deanna Troi..(has been in life or death scenario, felt someone die for her, been reunited withe love of her life, and dodged an arranged marriage by the end of season one...I think....) Do we count Picard in three episodes (bobw and family) or one (the inner light) both bits of which have lasting impact on him, and are picked up later, thereby proving the mythical reset button doesn’t really exist for characters the way we sometimes pretend it does. Oh. Neelix. Definitely Neelix...
DSC isn’t reinventing the wheel. It’s just put some chrome rims and running lights on it.
I recently re-evaluated voyager, and to be fair, Tom Paris the settled early-stage family man, with friends and a place in things, is about seven hundred and fifty thousand light years from Tom the traitor, ex con, guilty, womaniser who doesn’t stay in one place long we see at the beginning of the series.
Right, but he became that guy in like two hours. He later got the trimmings to go with it, but he was done being "edgy" or anything that would be risky by the end of Caretaker. IMO of course.
I have no Idea why you are so aggressive o_O. I said he went through the same character arc in the pilot. Started as a concivt, ended as an rehabilitated Officer/Hero-Type. Same as Burnham. Her arc was stretched out more, but that's not necessarily better, because things can get muddled, if the writers don't plan throroughly. Which... wasn't their strongest suite.
I dunno. I think it hung over him for a few episodes more at least, outside his cheer squad of janeway and Kim. And do we forget all the Delaney stuff or his Riker 101 stuff? The not very sensible Kes stuff? I think there’s a longer arc or three there to give the writers their credit.
I stopped reading after "aggressive"
Maybe that's why I liked him. A rare example of a 90s Trek character who felt like a real person.
Is spectacle better than character development? Short answer: Depends on the story. That might sound like a cop-out but it's not. It all depends on what the goals of the story are. Not all goals are the same and neither is what a writer may want you to get out of the story.
There are no rules, except the rules people place on others to tell them what they can and can't do.
There are no rules, except the rules people place on others to tell them what they can and can't do.
Burnham did the Paris arc fast too, but we never saw Tom get full official commission etc. He certainly didn’t get his record expunged etc. He very much had to earn his way back into that as far as the home turf was concerned. This is because his arc is actually the better conceived one from the start...there’s no ambiguity. He did a shit thing, people died. He owned up to it, then believed his own rep. Then circumstances gave him the opportunity to have a fresh start. Even then he went backwards sometimes. Burnham is back in rank by the end of series one, no harm, no foul. (Which to be fair is absolutely the Starfleet way, especially if you help save the planet) She is absolutely in the Paris mould though. She even has a low low rank buddy to mentor and who has strange sleeping practices.
I suppose I used the wrong word. People are conflating character expansion with actual maturation and growth.
Characters in Star Trek "expand" all the time, whether it be emotionally or philosophically or whatever. But those new quarks only ever manifest when it's convenient and/or necessary. The base character persona never changes. Vulcan Hello Burnham and Take My Hand Burnham might as well be two different people It's the difference between someone learning to type and someone going from not being able to read and write to becoming a court reporter.
Really, the only other character in the whole mythos who comes remotely close is Kira.
And, honestly, I have no idea what all this about Paris is about. The guy had the growth of a stale blueberry muffin.
Characters in Star Trek "expand" all the time, whether it be emotionally or philosophically or whatever. But those new quarks only ever manifest when it's convenient and/or necessary. The base character persona never changes. Vulcan Hello Burnham and Take My Hand Burnham might as well be two different people It's the difference between someone learning to type and someone going from not being able to read and write to becoming a court reporter.
Really, the only other character in the whole mythos who comes remotely close is Kira.
And, honestly, I have no idea what all this about Paris is about. The guy had the growth of a stale blueberry muffin.
There’s more if you give them a chance.
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