facepalm!
Poll Is Rey a Mary Sue?
- Thread starter fireproof78
- Start date
paragraphs are our friends!
Even if Luke was mystically guided by the force making his lucky shot, he still went from flying crop-dusters to surviving a combat mission in an F18 against a heavily defended target.
Anyway Rey picked up the Jedi Mind trick too easily, and I'm not sure when she learned to be a pilot. On the other hand I can buy her being a decent mechanic, or being competent enough in swordfight to beat a guy who had just been shot. She's not particularly overpowered by fantasy-action standards.
Even if Luke was mystically guided by the force making his lucky shot, he still went from flying crop-dusters to surviving a combat mission in an F18 against a heavily defended target.
Anyway Rey picked up the Jedi Mind trick too easily, and I'm not sure when she learned to be a pilot. On the other hand I can buy her being a decent mechanic, or being competent enough in swordfight to beat a guy who had just been shot. She's not particularly overpowered by fantasy-action standards.
Tapa,tapa,tapa...
Very much my thinking.
Luke manages to not only instantly master difficult skills but does so to a standard such that he is outmatching experts with lifetimes of training and experience.
Talented lad, something of a prodigy despite his rather simple and unchallenging (one might even say boring) life thus far.
Now, how about Rey? She (sort of) defeated an injured Kylo Ren, using a combination of innate force sensitivity and a lifetimes' experience of living and surviving alone in a hostile and violent environment.
Talented lass, but it would appear at face value that at the very least she has some semblance of a background in the relevant skills, whereas Luke just......pulled them out from seemingly nowhere.
Fair?
No, the difference is their genitalia. Let's not mince words here, it's a little question of which bits dangle and what chromosones are involved in putting them there.
Luke is a white male. It is always unfair when a minority or female approaches the same abilities.
Yup, key word there being "approaches".
As for this silly argument that Luke has goals and aspirations whereas Rey does not, what goals would they be exactly?
He was bored and wanted some adventure? He wanted to avenge the Aunt and Uncle whose murders he mysteriously seemed to have finished grieving by the next scene?
Rey had a very clear goal, stay alive despite growing up alone as a little girl on a violent desert planet. If anyone had the impetus to push themself it wasn't him.
Which is so weird because as a white male, I don't give a shit what the heroes of this saga look like.
Which is so weird because as a white male, I don't give a shit what the heroes of this saga look like.
Tsk tsk, he was a handsome young man!
All the tapa tapas and the tsk tsks today! What a day for alliteration!
Luke was essentially the bored suburban teen, flabbergasted that he had to help out at home when he wanted adventure.
The fact that you think it is "agenda driven" does much to discredit your argument. I think that Rey and Luke open themselves up to the Force in a similar, except Rey had a much more direct experience with the Force than Luke had.
Not sure how much more "training" you want, but @Ricky Spanish is quite correct when he states that they both accomplish great feats with little training.
the term originated form a piece of Trek fan fiction. I don't remember it exactly, but the fact that a female character comes in and .. of course if the party gets imprisoned, she has a hairpin to get them out! if they confront an alien that speaks a certain language, of course she is the only one in the party that speaks it, and she will say that she went to college just to speak that language. It's not just what a character can do, it's that they are inserted into the story haphazardly, they remind the other characters what they can do (remember, i speak droid, i speak wookie..! Yeah i might have been fine with her doing either or both perhaps, but that they pointed out that she could do it while Finn and others around her could not just rubs it the wrong way.
and remember...
There is nothing wrong with Rey. her only flaws are that she sees the good in people HAHA. there is no hardship for her, no cross she has to bear.. she is not greedy, prideful, self-centered, emotionally stunted, emotionally unstable, selfish, reckless, overconfident, naive, blinded by love, womanizing, stupid, psychotic, psychopathic, self righteous, narcissistic, inexperienced, overly ambitious,narrow minded, morally ambiguous, or arrogant. She has no vendetta, addiction, superiority complex, bloodlust, jealousy, or lust for power, she has no flaws that she could on personally, yet she is automatically incredible at every activity she does engage in, As a result she is a mary sue, as there is no room to grow (and despite what you keep saying Luke GREW as a character in those old films, both how he looked, how he acted, and how he thought) and there is nothing for her to learn, to change about herself, as she has already made it, she is better than every character at everything, Worse, she imparts lessons on the other characters, including the legacy characters, people that are far more experienced than her, It is very difficult to relate to her as a result. I'm not perfect and have never met perfection. I'm always assured that the writing will take good care of her. This is exemplified by the fact that at the end of the second film she shot down three TIES in one shot! YES and was in a great mood "I like this!" while at the same point in the original trilogy, Luke was barely alive, hanging upside down and calling for help, and his whole world had changed, Even if she earned all those traits (which she didn't) she is still all those things at base, and therefore is not a character..
and maybe it would have been forgiven if the story for these films was better, but they don't justify reopening an old completed book, tearing out the last page, and adding additional chapters. We still know so little about what happened, why. Plus the idea of mary sue is the constant reminder form behind the scenes hints can factor into it, that we KNOW all KK is interested in is "strong female characters" There is nothing wrong with strong female characters at base, of course, but when we know that is aLL she is interested in even above the story, we know that she has been inserted to fulfill her wish for that and not really to tell us a good SW story, that factors into how we think of her. But whatever. Everyone board loves these new movies. I'm so happy..
Go ahead and love them .. i love them too.. i mean what is not to love about strange aliens thinking BB-8 is a slot machine. What's not to love about the characters running around on alien space horse dogs.. or a alien lady screaming in center frame when she looks like a bunch of blobs stitched together? What's not to love about the fact that we had a character we just met mourning longer for another character we just met and who had no dialogue more than anyone, especially Luke, mourned for Han. Or that the story was a convoluted mess and tonal catastrophe. You all like it, so you will never see that Rey is a mary sue, and would rather denigrate films that have withstood the test of time and say "the older films had "blank" too, so it's ok" yadda yadda.. enjoy the garbage fires by Disney. For the record, while neither is perfect, i generally liked Rogue One and Solo.
and remember...
There is nothing wrong with Rey. her only flaws are that she sees the good in people HAHA. there is no hardship for her, no cross she has to bear.. she is not greedy, prideful, self-centered, emotionally stunted, emotionally unstable, selfish, reckless, overconfident, naive, blinded by love, womanizing, stupid, psychotic, psychopathic, self righteous, narcissistic, inexperienced, overly ambitious,narrow minded, morally ambiguous, or arrogant. She has no vendetta, addiction, superiority complex, bloodlust, jealousy, or lust for power, she has no flaws that she could on personally, yet she is automatically incredible at every activity she does engage in, As a result she is a mary sue, as there is no room to grow (and despite what you keep saying Luke GREW as a character in those old films, both how he looked, how he acted, and how he thought) and there is nothing for her to learn, to change about herself, as she has already made it, she is better than every character at everything, Worse, she imparts lessons on the other characters, including the legacy characters, people that are far more experienced than her, It is very difficult to relate to her as a result. I'm not perfect and have never met perfection. I'm always assured that the writing will take good care of her. This is exemplified by the fact that at the end of the second film she shot down three TIES in one shot! YES and was in a great mood "I like this!" while at the same point in the original trilogy, Luke was barely alive, hanging upside down and calling for help, and his whole world had changed, Even if she earned all those traits (which she didn't) she is still all those things at base, and therefore is not a character..
and maybe it would have been forgiven if the story for these films was better, but they don't justify reopening an old completed book, tearing out the last page, and adding additional chapters. We still know so little about what happened, why. Plus the idea of mary sue is the constant reminder form behind the scenes hints can factor into it, that we KNOW all KK is interested in is "strong female characters" There is nothing wrong with strong female characters at base, of course, but when we know that is aLL she is interested in even above the story, we know that she has been inserted to fulfill her wish for that and not really to tell us a good SW story, that factors into how we think of her. But whatever. Everyone board loves these new movies. I'm so happy..
Go ahead and love them .. i love them too.. i mean what is not to love about strange aliens thinking BB-8 is a slot machine. What's not to love about the characters running around on alien space horse dogs.. or a alien lady screaming in center frame when she looks like a bunch of blobs stitched together? What's not to love about the fact that we had a character we just met mourning longer for another character we just met and who had no dialogue more than anyone, especially Luke, mourned for Han. Or that the story was a convoluted mess and tonal catastrophe. You all like it, so you will never see that Rey is a mary sue, and would rather denigrate films that have withstood the test of time and say "the older films had "blank" too, so it's ok" yadda yadda.. enjoy the garbage fires by Disney. For the record, while neither is perfect, i generally liked Rogue One and Solo.
I've been reading my six month old son Curious George Learns the Alphabet. So much alliteration in that book. I wish I got more sleep at night so I could remember some of it. Sigh.
(Before the Curious George books, I read him my very old Star Wars storybooks. Its funny going back and reading those now as they are not quite up to par with the canon of it all. So I might have made a few on the fly changes. And added an Ackbar "Its a trap!" for good measure. He loves it when I do voices.)
If you don't like the movies, then simply don't watch them (I'm hard on Discovery, but I wouldn't even pay attention if there wasn't something redeeming about it). Continue on like the "Legends" label or whatever fan fiction you follow is the future of the universe.
Your argument is essentially, Luke isn't a "Mary Sue" for reasons, but Rey is. Even though both are thrown into the fire and are forced to do more than what should be expected from novices.
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so i write out the reason that is not the case, but because i wrote a lot, you just sum it up as you want to, exactly the opposite of my point. Well done
