Spoilers Is Picard season 2 a failure?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Ometiklan, Apr 26, 2022.

  1. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    Look at the beating Culber and Stamets have taken on Disco.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, in a way that's true. Two characters who were brand new in TMP had more dialog and focus than some from the show. So, yes, in a way.

    In any case, I like variety. This idea of one size fits all doesn't appeal any more. Maybe when I was younger and just liked TOS it would appeal more :)
    Well, my comment was in direct response to a poster talking about "putting these comments in commercials," so I did it clip style.

    But, since you asked here's my view: I never liked Picard. I grew up watching TOS on VHS and enjoying Kirk, and his very down to Earth style leadership, and yet still felt very human. Picard didn't. He was distant, off putting, condescending at times, and brusque at other times. Now, that's a style that generally doesn't sit well with me as a leader. So, Picard basically was someone I felt no interest in, no engagement, no desire to get to know better.

    Season 2 provided some context to him in a way that I felt was missing. He had pain and trauma, and basically had kept it behind closed doors because of how deeply it impacted him. It gives a new light to a character who basically I had written off as not interesting.
    Kind of, but not really. What Season 2 did was give me a new perspective on Picard as a character, and made me want to go back and watch TNG and try to engage more at a character level.
     
  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay.

    "The Best of Both Worlds", "Family", and First Contact, being traumatized by The Borg, what it did to him, and the aftermath.

    "Chain of Command" and being tortured by Gul Madred, almost being broken.

    "Remembrance", the first episode of PIC itself, where Picard was still grieving Data's death and also felt abandoned by a Starfleet that he thought changed for the worse. Hell, I might as well throw in the end of Nemesis too, where he clearly looks to be in pain.

    Then there's Generations where he was bawling his eyes out -- understandably -- because his brother and nephew died. People he probably took for granted as thinking they'd always be around. Not the best way to introduce a character right off the bat to a Movie Audience, but totally understandable in and of itself.

    You really should. The main reason I re-watched all of TNG before PIC was because I didn't want to rely on my faded memory. I wanted better context. And, most importantly, I wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which is all well and good but doesn't explain his behavior prior to those events. That's the thing. I like a story that has me at least engaged with the character, even if I don't like them, and what happens to them. With Picard, especially in Season 1, I never did. Now, those episodes you list are decent ones, and Generations had a really warm moment. But that doesn't explain any behavior before those events, so it gives no meaning to his past behavior.

    I'm not saying the show didn't have times it explored Picard, but it was always reactionary to events, not what makes Picard Picard. And that's what I wanted, not just reactionary behaviors to understandably tragic events.

    I stalled out at Ensigns of Command, but I will attempt again. Someday. Unfortunately, real life does not make it a high priority.
     
  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then I'll give you a short-cut. You want episodes that show what makes Picard who he is?

    "The Measure of a Man" -- Picard standing up for what's right.

    "Samaritan Snare" -- His backstory and how it influences who he is "now".

    "The Defector" -- Staring down the Romulans shows his true abilities as a leader.

    "Captain's Holiday" -- Shows the more romantic, adventurous side of his character.

    "The Wounded" -- Another example of how Picard ticks, by showing how pragmatically manages to preserve the peace between the Federation and Cardassians.

    "The Drumhead" -- The ultimate example of Picard standing up for what's right. Picard versus McCarthyism. If someone can't get behind Picard in this episode, then I'll be so bold as to say it says more about them than it does about Picard or the episode.

    "Darmok" -- Picard reaching out to an alien he can't communicate with through a Universal Translator and they try to understand each other. You should be all about that since you say you try to understand different people and their viewpoints.

    "The Inner Light" -- Picard learning the importance of family when he never considered himself a family man before.

    "Tapestry" -- More insight into Picard's youth, and how choices he made in his life led to him becoming a Captain.

    "Lessons" -- Follows up on "The Inner Light" to a degree and gives Picard a serious love interest, and the tragedy of how he can't reconcile romance with being a Captain.

    "Gambit" -- Shows how Picard can throw himself into a role, on an espionage mission, and have some fun with it.

    "All Good Things" -- Sets up Picard's possible future and the illness he has in PIC Season 1. No doubt something about Crusher will figure into Season 3.

    And obviously the other episodes I mentioned:
    "Q Who"
    "The Best of Both Worlds"
    Parts I and II
    "Family"
    "Chain of Command"
    Parts I and II
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I more wanted the "Why he is the way he is," not the "What." Especially early on when he is difficult to like.

    But, I appreciate the list very much.
     
  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Those episodes show you why. You're moving goalposts now and you know it.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, I was clarifying, especially where I got stuck in trying out Season 1. No need to get testy. I am open to your list and plan on reviewing it. Mostly because you're right in that I shouldn't rely on my memory of episodes, especially when I saw them out of order.

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Enough of this.

    Anyway, Picard Season 2. I bought the Blu-Ray of it and working my way through it again. I still enjoy the episodes, but it's no Season 1. I'd say S2 definitely has a lighter touch.
     
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  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm rewatching this. So far, episode one: Shit. Episode two: Really good.
     
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  11. Mogh

    Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I love the diversity of fandom. My experience was almost completely the reverse.
     
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  12. Vasquez Rocks

    Vasquez Rocks Commodore Commodore

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    I'm also rewatching and I'm liking it more this time around than my first watch. I think it's because I know where it ends up and I always did like the ending. The middle is where it sags a little but like I said it doesn't bother me as much.

    EDIT: I just watched Monsters and I never noticed the use of TNG Picard dialog from episodes like Tapestry and other bits when Not Laris enters his mind. Pretty cool stuff. Also noticed they do mention Picard's new body a lot in this season in the dialog and the defibrillators scene where it nearly explodes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Season 3 is when the show starts to get good.
     
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  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps Picard will grow a beard?
     
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  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Episode three was... on. It existed. Highlight is Jurati wired up to the Queen.
     
  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    I've seen that a lot.
     
  17. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Up to episode 7. God there's a lot of silly shit happening.
     
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  18. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Finished it. The final chat with Q and Picard was fantasic. The rest was, and I say this as one of the most forgiving Trekkies on this site, utter shite.

    Thank goodness for Prodigy.
     
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  19. Cr0sis21

    Cr0sis21 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    It was a failure in almost every conceivable way. The plot was nonsensical. The pace was glacial. The setting was bland and as far from Star Trek as the series can get. Season 1 had several episodes I enjoyed and like to revisit. Season 2 had none. They took the most unique character in the series (Elnor, the first Romulan main cast member in Trek history) and fridged him for Rafi's motivation. They introduced interesting concepts that went absolutely nowhere. They neutered the Borg more in ten episodes than Voyager did in 4 years. They ended it by getting rid of all the most interesting characters in the series and keeping the one that was the least unique.
    It was probably the worst season of Star Trek since...I honestly don't know. Ever? Even TOS Season 3 had The Enterprise Incident and The Tholian Web.
    The only saving graces were Q's all-too-brief scenes with Picard. Two great scenes, and that's it? What a waste. Oh well, at least that goodbye was heartfelt and emotional. Shame we had to wade thru such crap to get to it.
     
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  20. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Nah.
    The Queen was scarier in this than she was in First Contact or Voyager.