No, he kept his rank as "Captain of Engineering", though the wardrobe department flubbed the rank insignia AND the color of the turtle neck. And, if you recall, ALL charges relating to theft of the Enterprise w dropped, save were for one (which was specifically laid down on Kirk's head). Question should be whether or not someone with the rank of "captain" should be a chief engineer of a starship...
Is nuKirk closer to his crew than the original Kirk?
- Thread starter ED-209
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No, he kept his rank as "Captain of Engineering", though the wardrobe department flubbed the rank insignia AND the color of the turtle neck. And, if you recall, ALL charges relating to theft of the Enterprise w dropped, save were for one (which was specifically laid down on Kirk's head). Question should be whether or not someone with the rank of "captain" should be a chief engineer of a starship...
And Scotty explicitly referred to himself as a captain in "Relics", saying although he's a captain by rank all he wants is to be an engineer.
Kirk was not ignorant of Demora's existence. His reaction was a mix of a) surprise she was there aboard Enterprise; b) some astonishment that she was all-grown up; and c) curiosity about how Sulu found the time to bring up a daughter when he was seemingly hanging around with Kirk the last several decades, including several deep space missions, stealing the Enterprise, a stint in exile on Vulcan, and at least some time onboard the Enterprise-A, at least until he finally went off to captain Excelsior (not long before this).
He even explicitly says he remembers meeting Demora, albeit 20-something years ago.
At no point does Kirk show ignorance of her existence.
"The Captain's Daughter" novel goes to some lengths to show exactly how Sulu did parent around all the above events. (Kirk's meeting with the child Demora happens after he discovers her messing around inside the Kobyashi Maru simulation room, having accidentally activated the test).
He even explicitly says he remembers meeting Demora, albeit 20-something years ago.
At no point does Kirk show ignorance of her existence.
"The Captain's Daughter" novel goes to some lengths to show exactly how Sulu did parent around all the above events. (Kirk's meeting with the child Demora happens after he discovers her messing around inside the Kobyashi Maru simulation room, having accidentally activated the test).
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Naturally, the PD novel directly contradicts the point of TUC, which is that Sulu had a family, and time for said. In the book, Demora is the result of a drive-by shooting, no different from how Kirk himself waded through his so-called life.
Or then not, and he first lost the rank exactly as shown, and then regained the rank exactly as shown.
But Scotty lost his rank before the trial already - which would be fine and well if that rank were contingent on him serving on the Excelsior.
Timo Saloniemi
Or then not, and he first lost the rank exactly as shown, and then regained the rank exactly as shown.
But Scotty lost his rank before the trial already - which would be fine and well if that rank were contingent on him serving on the Excelsior.
Timo Saloniemi
"Is nuKirk closer to his crew than the original Kirk?" I'd say no. TOS was made in a different time, which I think plays a factor in how they portrayed relationships on screen. As to what was portrayed, I always looked at the fact that Kirk's crew chose to stay with him and keep a post that, as argued, may have held back their careers because of how they felt about their Captain. They respected him so much, that sometimes their choice was to follow Kirk and not Starfleet, which also affected their careers. TUDC portrayed that even once they did move on, they had massive amounts of respect for Kirk, ala Sulu's comment at the end with his whole bridge crew at attention 'Nice to see you in action, one more time Captain Kirk.' I was always left with the feeling that he was hugely respected by his crew, but that they didn't portray the more personal life side of that connection on screen.
They do show that more with the Kelvin verse, how they met, how they formed those connections and the friendships. Given a choice, I prefer the Kelvin timeline presentation, but I also love TOS as well.
They do show that more with the Kelvin verse, how they met, how they formed those connections and the friendships. Given a choice, I prefer the Kelvin timeline presentation, but I also love TOS as well.
Not normally, but if anyone would have the clout and experience to be an exception, it would be Scotty.
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Why not?
I think the assumption is that engineering officers of Captain rank would be heading up a big division at the Starfleet Corps. of Engineers or something, not serving under another officer of Captain rank on a regular ship.
Kor
I can't. Authority under the chain of command isn't about the rank you hold but the position (AKA billet) to which you are assigned. That assignment determines, in almost every case, the chain of personnel who you give orders to and the chain of personnel from whom you receive orders.
You can't see the argument that Engineering Captains would be assigned to roles at the Corps of Engineers, rather than on a ship?
Not when it is premised solely on the fact that his rank is Captain.
Edit to add: Besides, when I hear Corps of Engineers, I think Starfleet Seabees.
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I think Trek makes Captain rank to be the penultimate in the Starfleet ranks, so there is a lot of assumption that a captain should step in to more responsibility, i.e. commanding a starship, overseeing a major facility, etc. There isn't the military style understanding of billets and that rank doesn't automatically mean moving on to the next big thing.
I hadn't considered this aspect of the Kirks before, but I side with those who feel that NuKirk is closer to his crew than Prime Kirk is. I was just thinking of the interplay between NuKirk and NuUhura concerning her relationship with Spock in Into Darkness. I can't imagine Prime Kirk and Prime Uhura ever having a similar conversation. Or when Uhura and Spock have an argument in front of Kirk while flying down to Qo'Nos.
NuKirk seemed far more at ease with hanging out with his bridge officers, and rank didn't seem as important IMO, and I think in part that was because many of them met in the Academy. Whereas far as I know we haven't had a Prime canon story for how Kirk met his crew.
NuKirk seemed far more at ease with hanging out with his bridge officers, and rank didn't seem as important IMO, and I think in part that was because many of them met in the Academy. Whereas far as I know we haven't had a Prime canon story for how Kirk met his crew.
nuKirk also strikes me as someone who places a large amount of value on family and belonging. It was an occasional theme in TOS and the TOS films, but nuKirk needed that familial connection, and immediately offers it to Carol Marcus when she joins at the end. He is far more sensitive to his family's needs as a crew, like with Spock and Uhura. He might be a bit unprofessional at times with how he pushes but he definitely wants that engagement.
I would like to think that centuries from now, enlightened humanity will have dispensed with our primitive, stodgy notions of "professionalism" and learned to be more familiar and familial with people we work with, without letting it affect our judgment when it comes to doing the actual job. This would include romances between subordinates and supervisors.
Kor
Kor
