Is nuBSG's "First Hybrid" actually Daniel Graystone?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This link seems to imply that he is.

When the Hybrid originally appeared onscreen, obviously the writers didn't know that the Caprica series would eventually come about, but the Hybrid's comments - particularly "My children believe I am a god" - certainly seem to imply that, retroactively of course, the Hybrid is what remains of Daniel Graystone.

And it would fit, really. Especially if Graystone being converted into the Hybrid is considered a form of punishment for his sins (creating the Cylon race) and so he is essentially damned to live out the rest of his days as the Hybrid.

What say you?

 

[137th Gebirg]

It was always a part of my head-canon that he was, yes. I don't think even the writers and producers even knew, TBH. I was always extremely disappointed when, in one of the interviews (or maybe it was the DVD commentaries) with RDM & Eich, where they basically admitted they were just throwing shit against the wall in the writers' room to see what sounded "kewl", without giving much thought to any follow-up. The greatest case-in-point in my memory was when Roslyn was reading from the Book of Pythea about "he who should not be named", and not a single payout to who that was in the rest of the entire show. I don't even think it was a red herring, as even those are stoked a little to keep the audience guessing. Just...nothing. So, I'm thinking the old Cylon in the tank is another one of those "kewl" ideas that wound up suffering from amnesia. But yeah, in-universe, I definitely think it was him.

In going back to another post I made on the subject, here are a bunch of the unanswered questions that the show suffered from - some of them being major plot threads:

• Who/what was Starbuck, really?
• Who/what were the "Head" people?
• Who/what was the Cylon "god"? Why does he/she/it not like to be called that?
  
• Who/what was the being referred to as "He Who Should Not Be Named" in the Book of Pythia for whom the Temple of the Five was built and dedicated? (and I don't mean Lord Voldemort) Count Iblis?
  
• If "our" Earth was completely new and different from the "other" Earth, where the Five came from, how could the 12 constellations in the Kobolian holographic "planetarium" be so closely resembling the star patterns of "our" Earth? That shouldn't be possible if the "other" Earth was only a couple of light-years away. Star patterns shift over great distance, not to mention stellar drift between the time the planetarium was built and the thousands of years after, at the arrival of the RTF. The constellation designs should have been completely unintelligible, and for them to have the same "old names" as what we use today?
• Why was there such an intentional attempt at including blatantly recognizable Earth-origin objects on Caprica and scattered throughout the fleet? Starbuck's Humvee? Cain's weapons display with Tommy guns, American and German WWII pistols? Galactica pilot ready-room shadowbox displays of USAF insignia? Pencils in the CIC labeled "made in China"? Reader's Digest compilation books? I understood the showrunner's intention of making this universe very relate-able and non-alien to the audience, but they took it to a degree that almost seem to be saying, for the longest time, "there's a hidden reason why all these Earth-like things are here". Something other than "Just 'cause, y'know...whatever"...
  
• They flirted with and implied the whole ancient aliens thing that made TOS BSG so interesting, just switching Egyptian cultural queues with Greco-Roman ones. What was the purpose of this, other than to imply an ancient astronaut link between the civilizations?

So we could probably quite easily add your "Is nuBSG's "First Hybrid" actually Daniel Graystone?" question to this list.

 

[EnderAKH]

In going back to another post I made on the subject, here are a bunch of the unanswered questions that the show suffered from - some of them being major plot threads:

• Who/what was Starbuck, really?
• Who/what were the "Head" people?
• Who/what was the Cylon "god"? Why does he/she/it not like to be called that?

• I can give my opinion on these three:
• Angel
• Angels
• God and because God is mysterious.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, well, I was kind of hoping for a bit more than that from the show, but yeah, that's what we got...

 

[Butters]

• I can give my opinion on these three:
• Angel
• Angels
• God and because God is mysterious.

Yup. God did it.

RDM, what were you thinking?

 

[The Old Mixer]

I had no problem with those first three remaining a mystery. Omnipotent god-beings who meddle in the affairs of humanity shouldn't be a problem for people who watch Trek. Does it really make a difference if they introduce themselves using a name like "Q"?

 

[Commander Richard]

Who/what was Starbuck, really?

Starbuck died when her viper blew up. A head character who likes to work in the flesh then took her place, complete with her body and memories. This newly returned "Starbuck" didn't know this on a conscious level though. This is inferred from The Final Five four-part comic, written by a BSG staff writer and referenced in an interview by Jane Espenson, thereby giving it some legitimacy in canon. In the comic, Pythia also died and returned but the comic went further and revealed that she was in fact angel who took over her life.

Who/what were the "Head" people?

They were the Ship of Lights people. The comic didn't delve into this any further.

Who/what was the Cylon "god"? Why does he/she/it not like to be called that?

Don't know.

Who/what was the being referred to as "He Who Should Not Be Named" in the Book of Pythia for whom the Temple of the Five was built and dedicated? (and I don't mean Lord Voldemort) Count Iblis?

No idea.

If "our" Earth was completely new and different from the "other" Earth, where the Five came from, how could the 12 constellations in the Kobolian holographic "planetarium" be so closely resembling the star patterns of "our" Earth? That shouldn't be possible if the "other" Earth was only a couple of light-years away. Star patterns shift over great distance, not to mention stellar drift between the time the planetarium was built and the thousands of years after, at the arrival of the RTF. The constellation designs should have been completely unintelligible, and for them to have the same "old names" as what we use today?

Our Earth being in close proximity to Cylon Earth fits well enough as an explanation if anyone wants to go with that.

Why was there such an intentional attempt at including blatantly recognizable Earth-origin objects on Caprica and scattered throughout the fleet? Starbuck's Humvee? Cain's weapons display with Tommy guns, American and German WWII pistols? Galactica pilot ready-room shadowbox displays of USAF insignia? Pencils in the CIC labeled "made in China"? Reader's Digest compilation books? I understood the showrunner's intention of making this universe very relate-able and non-alien to the audience, but they took it to a degree that almost seem to be saying, for the longest time, "there's a hidden reason why all these Earth-like things are here". Something other than "Just 'cause, y'know...whatever"...

According to Ron Moore, there is a collective unconscious or creative ether from which people drew inspiration to create art and tech. That's why our modern world looks like theirs. It all happened before...

They flirted with and implied the whole ancient aliens thing that made TOS BSG so interesting, just switching Egyptian cultural queues with Greco-Roman ones. What was the purpose of this, other than to imply an ancient astronaut link between the civilizations?

Haven't a clue.

 

[gblews]

In going back to another post I made on the subject, here are a bunch of the unanswered questions that the show suffered from - some of them being major plot threads:

• Who/what was Starbuck, really?
• Who/what were the "Head" people?
• Who/what was the Cylon "god"? Why does he/she/it not like to be called that?

I don't think the show "suffered" at all from these unanswered questions.

I really loved that Starbuck ended up being some kind of "spirit" being who was never explained. I also didn't have a problem with the "head" people, who were possibly angels in my head canon. I thought of the Cylon "god" as the omnipotent being who formed the basis of who the Cylon's were as beings in the universe and all of their values.

After the show spent so much time on "god(s)" and it's nature and who god favored, I thought that it's morphing into somewhat of a fantasy was quite appropriate. Starbuck's final disappearance, the miraculous way they found the "second" earth fit right into what the show had become.

 

[Butters]

I had no problem with those first three remaining a mystery. Omnipotent god-beings who meddle in the affairs of humanity shouldn't be a problem for people who watch Trek. Does it really make a difference if they introduce themselves using a name like "Q"?

I’ve no problem with god like beings, or even actual God. But, stuff happens, it’s mysterious, keep watching, there’s a plan, God did it. That’s not a story and it’s not a pay off.

Ranking up the tension, building intrigue is easy, punch line is hard. BSG weaseled out and effectively said Wizards did it.

The nebula the cylons couldn’t enter? Wizards. Kobol lost to mankind, wizards did it. The opera house? Wizards. It’s all happened before, wizards did it. The final five, being first, wizards did it.

Style over substance, and ten years later, still cross.

If Star Trek did that, Klingons look different this time? Wizards did it. It’s a narrative dead end, nothing to discuss. Wizards.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Eh, it wasn't really about the hows and whys...it was about the journey that the characters went on.

 

[JD]

The only thing that really bothered me with the BSG ending was never getting a clear explanation of exactly what Starbuck was.
Like with Lost, I was never that concerned with getting answers to every question, so I wasn't that mad we didn't get them.
I watched both shows for their characters and the characters stories, and I thought both shows did a good job of giving us what we needed to get a satisfactory ending for the characters.

 

[David cgc]

Personally, my theory on the two Earths and the constellations is that the Cylon Earth's constellations didn't actually look anything like our Zodiac, and, in fact, looked exactly like what we saw in the Tomb of Athena. Meaning you could see all twelve of them at one time from one place at night (whereas the whole thing that makes our zodiac the zodiac is that the constellations are more-or-less aligned with the sun so you see different ones at different times of the year). Also, apparently by pure dumb luck, the art department didn't worry about matching the constellations seen in the tomb to the real ones that closely, so it's not even that much of a coincidence that each planet could independently have twelve identical-looking constellations (okay, it's a bit of a coincidence that they're in the same order), since they're only fairly similar.

Of course, my other theory is that humans are, in fact, indigenous to Our Earth, and a population was kidnapped by the Lords of Kobol so they'd have subjects to rule over thousands of years before the show, and they and/or Cylon God was saving the ancestral homeland of humanity as a special reward (a "gift from the angels," if you will) once humanity demonstrated a willingness to break out of the cycle of time.

And, while I'm not too upset about Starbuck coming back as/being replaced by one of the angels, there are times I like to imagine she just tripped over a rock while Lee was talking about climbing mountains and right after the scene cut away she got back up out of the tall grass and Lee felt really stupid that his first thought when he turned around and didn't see Kara was that she'd somehow evaporated.

 

[arch101]

I thought that one of the show's best aspects was that everything wasn't explained. Not everything gets explained in real life either. The fact that the show still has people wondering a decade later tells me they did their work well.
I do miss this show, though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Speaking of headcanon: Mine totally has the "Cylon God" being nu-Count Iblis.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Me too. So wish we got to see him and the Ship of Lights again. IMO, that was one of the most interesting plot lines of TOS, with the grand cosmic chess game being played between them, using the humans and cylons as pawns for the greater plan. IIRC, there was a strong rumor that Roger Moore was being considered to play that role back then. Sadly, it never transpired.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And also, carrying the "All this has happened before, all this will happen again" to its ultimate conclusion:

Both versions of BSG exist in a closed time loop.

Meaning:

- Of course nuBSG takes place several millennia in the past, as "Daybreak" showed.
- Sometime after the events of nuBSG, the Cylons return to the remains of the Twelve Colonies and rebuild them. They eventually forget they're Cylons.
- BSG-TOS, then, is a sequel to nuBSG, and (technically speaking) every human character in TOS is actually descended from humanoid Cylons.
- As per "The Hand of God", we know that TOS at least takes place in our own present time, as the Galactica crew pick up the Apollo 11 transmissions in that episode. (Of course TOS could take place in our future - assuming the Apollo transmissions have been bouncing around the ether for awhile - but it can't be any earlier than our present.)
- Furthermore: In our Earth's future, we will send expeditions out into space to establish colonies. One of these expeditions is swept back in time...several millennia ... and founds Kobol as we saw it in nuBSG.

See? Closed loop. Works just fine, IMHO.

 

[137th Gebirg]

So much potential...IIRC, there was an official effort to knit the two together in a similar fashion during one of the failed attempts at a feature film revival (the second or the third I think). Still makes me sad to think of what could have been. Hopefully I'll live long enough to see it happen. Maybe in another 15 or 20 years.

 

[Butters]

I thought that one of the show's best aspects was that everything wasn't explained. Not everything gets explained in real life either. The fact that the show still has people wondering a decade later tells me they did their work well.
I do miss this show, though.

But everything was explained. God did it. There’s not a single plot thread left hanging that can’t be attributed to the mysteriousness of God. I find that a tad dissatisfying.

 

[David cgc]

So much potential...IIRC, there was an official effort to knit the two together in a similar fashion during one of the failed attempts at a feature film revival (the second or the third I think). Still makes me sad to think of what could have been. Hopefully I'll live long enough to see it happen. Maybe in another 15 or 20 years.

There's a comicbook miniseries coming out right now written by Peter David with a crossover between the TOS and remake crews. Don't know much about it beyond that.

 

[bigdaddy]

Eh, it wasn't really about the hows and whys...it was about the journey that the characters went on.

I didn't know the LOST writers worked here as mods now.