Is Kathleen Kennedy Ruining Star Wars (a catchall thread)

[fireproof78]

I can dip a toe in either pond, so to speak. I enjoyed the EU and grew up immersed in both SW and ST, but I'm conscious of the fact that they are all ultimately commercial ventures.

Perhaps it's worth viewing the films as being in a sense distinct from their cultural significance, a franchise intended to make money on the one hand, but also something which has left an indelible mark on the consciousness of at least two distinct generations.

I can dip myself in both ponds as well. I grew up with SW, and was really my first foray in to the world of Speculative Fiction. So, it definitely is very informative of my childhood. Yes, I can feel a sense of ownership at times. No, its not rational.

On the other hand, those who create it are not going to feel the same why I do/did. It is a commercial venture first and foremost, yes even for Lucas. So, accusing the Disney era of doing something different than what Lucas would have done, i.e. make money off of it, is disingenuous, at best, and an effort to villainize a company for not making it how I would do it.

 

[crookeddy]

I didn't mean to differentiate Disney using Star Wars as a cash cow vs Lucas. It was his baby AND his cash cow obviously.

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't mean to differentiate Disney using Star Wars as a cash cow vs Lucas. It was his baby AND his cash cow obviously.

Sorry, I perhaps overreacted to the term "cash cow."

 

[Jayson1]

She is Rick Berman. Good at keeping the money flowing in but not so good in terms of having a creative vision which shows in all the fired directors. Jason

 

[Awesome Possum]

She is Rick Berman. Good at keeping the money flowing in but not so good in terms of having a creative vision which shows in all the fired directors. Jason

That's what her job is supposed to be, she's an executive producer. That's what they do.

 

[Jayson1]

That's what her job is supposed to be, she's an executive producer. That's what they do.

I know but I feel like she doesn't trust the creative types bellow her nor does does she have any gameplan like how the MCU has phases and they spent years building up to Endgame and already a new one with a cosmic phase and also plans to bring in th mutants and Fantastic 4. SW's vision seems change yearly or after each movie. It comes off chatoic and they have only survied because the brand is to strong to destroy so instead it's just been dinged. But they can't relay on brand loyalty forever or it to go away for awhile because Berman eventually went from a strenght to a liability. Jason

 

[Awesome Possum]

I know but I feel like she doesn't trust the creative types bellow her nor does does she have any gameplan like how the MCU has phases and they spent years building up to Endgame and already a new one with a cosmic phase and also plans to bring in th mutants and Fantastic 4. SW's vision seems change yearly or after each movie. It comes off chatoic and they have only survied because the brand is to strong to destroy so instead it's just been dinged. But they can't relay on brand loyalty forever or it to go away for awhile because Berman eventually went from a strenght to a liability. Jason

Where do you get that idea? They dropped D&D after they admitted they had no idea what they were doing with Game of Thrones when they ran out of the books and didn't really understand the characters. Is that the creative force anyone would want behind a billion dollar franchise? No.

The story line for the franchise has been pretty consistent, so I really don't know what you're talking about. The new EU books set after ROTJ have been hinting at some greater plan of the Emperor since before TFA came out. Everything in TLJ fits in with TFA and JJ has implied that nothing he planned has changed. All these claims exist only in the imagination of those who say them.

 

[Jayson1]

Where do you get that idea? They dropped D&D after they admitted they had no idea what they were doing with Game of Thrones when they ran out of the books and didn't really understand the characters. Is that the creative force anyone would want behind a billion dollar franchise? No.

The story line for the franchise has been pretty consistent, so I really don't know what you're talking about. The new EU books set after ROTJ have been hinting at some greater plan of the Emperor since before TFA came out. Everything in TLJ fits in with TFA and JJ has implied that nothing he planned has changed. All these claims exist only in the imagination of those who say them.

I was thinking more about not planning the Skywalker 3 movies from the start. Then were going to do the stand alone movies until Solo failed because of fears of doing comedy so they fire Miller and bring in Ron Howard. They got the Rian Johnson trilogy on hold and he could be fired or next up. I don't think they even know. Plus they must have liked the Game of Thrones enough to hire them but maybe Netflix offered them a better deal. Plus Feige's role is unclear. I could see Feige taking over SW while Keenedy then helps Spielberg get a Indiana Jones franchise get built or run Hulu they will want that mainstream and family friendly. Jason

 

[XCV330]

I didn't like TLJ but it's no worse than Attack of the Clowns. I haven't seen Solo so I can't comment on that one, but TFA was an ok movie. Sequels are going to be diminishing returns. That's just how it is.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The original trilogy wasn't planned from the start, no matter what Lucas liked to claim.

 

[Jayson1]

I didn't like TLJ but it's no worse than Attack of the Clowns. I haven't seen Solo so I can't comment on that one, but TFA was an ok movie. Sequels are going to be diminishing returns. That's just how it is.

I disagree but TLJ is better than Phantom Menace. Jar Jar alone was bad enough to ruin the movie. Jason

 

[fireproof78]

She is Rick Berman. Good at keeping the money flowing in but not so good in terms of having a creative vision which shows in all the fired directors. Jason

"All of them"?

Teveverrow was fired for being able to complete the script on schedule.

ETA: Oops...stupid browser eating part of my post.

I was thinking more about not planning the Skywalker 3 movies from the start. Then were going to do the stand alone movies until Solo failed because of fears of doing comedy so they fire Miller and bring in Ron Howard. They got the Rian Johnson trilogy on hold and he could be fired or next up. I don't think they even know. Plus they must have liked the Game of Thrones enough to hire them but maybe Netflix offered them a better deal. Plus Feige's role is unclear. I could see Feige taking over SW while Keenedy then helps Spielberg get a Indiana Jones franchise get built or run Hulu they will want that mainstream and family friendly. Jason

I don't think it is quite a dire as that, though certainly not having all the information makes such a conclusion challenging, at best. Each director fired is one that couldn't quite keep up with the schedule expected by Kennedy, indicating that there is a much more of a plan than many would give her credit for.

Secondly, she has directors still interested in working for her again, like Abrams and Johnson.

Third, Netflix did offer them a better deal. That's in the Variety article linked in the other thread. It was a bidding war between Lucasfilm, Netflix and another provider. And directors, like actors, are allowed to follow the money-often times they do. That's how Sean Connery ended in The Last Crusade.

Finally, if Disney were truly dissatisfied with Kennedy's performance they would be discussing her resignation.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Kathleen Kennedy gets the same wrap as Rick Berman did with Star Trek--the same guy who kept Star Trek on the air far longer than Roddenbury did with three spin offs from TNG.

Under Kennedy we have gotten way more--for better or not--Star Wars than we ever did under Lucas. From movies to cartoons to live action.

She's doing just fine.

 

[Set Harth]

Teveverrow was fired for being able to co

Holy crap, she got to you too! And in mid-sentence!

 

[Jayson1]

"All of them"?

Teveverrow was fired for being able to co

I don't think it is quite a dire as that, though certainly not having all the information makes such a conclusion challenging, at best. Each director fired is one that couldn't quite keep up with the schedule expected by Kennedy, indicating that there is a much more of a plan than many would give her credit for.

Secondly, she has directors still interested in working for her again, like Abrams and Johnson.

Third, Netflix did offer them a better deal. That's in the Variety article linked in the other thread. It was a bidding war between Lucasfilm, Netflix and another provider. And directors, like actors, are allowed to follow the money-often times they do. That's how Sean Connery ended in The Last Crusade.

Finally, if Disney were truly dissatisfied with Kennedy's performance they would be discussing her resignation.

I don't think Displeased but more concerned. Oviously they like the money SW has made for them but even they must see the mistakes and be worried about the fan divide. I suspect they are also afraid to truly succeed without any connections to the classic movies. Kind of like how DS9 and Voyager failed to be popular so they returned to a Enterprise and then TOS reboot and yet again to Sarek,Spock,Enterprise,Pike and Picard. Jason

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think Displeased but more concerned. Oviously they like the money SW has made for them but even they must see the mistakes and be worried about the fan divide. I suspect they are also afraid to truly succeed without any connections to the classic movies. Kind of like how DS9 and Voyager failed to be popular so they returned to a Enterprise and then TOS reboot and yet again to Sarek,Spock,Enterprise,Pike and Picard. Jason

This is Hollywood's fear. They do not trust in their products enough to venture too far out of the nostalgia zone.

That said, if Disney brass is concerned then I see that as a good thing. Means they are not being complacent and actually invested.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I don't think Displeased but more concerned. Oviously they like the money SW has made for them but even they must see the mistakes and be worried about the fan divide. I suspect they are also afraid to truly succeed without any connections to the classic movies. Kind of like how DS9 and Voyager failed to be popular so they returned to a Enterprise and then TOS reboot and yet again to Sarek,Spock,Enterprise,Pike and Picard. Jason

Disney is a business and knows a lot more than you do about this, they support her and her decisions. The closest to a mistake for Star Wars was the release of Solo, which was due to Disney scheduling it when they did. Something they admitted to after looking into it. Plus I don't think the fan divide is as large as some fans want to think. It seems to be a very small, but vocal minority. One that benefits from appearing larger than it really is. TLJ was the best selling DVD release of the year when it came out, that's not a failure. TROS is already breaking records for pre-sales previously set by Avengers Endgame. Star Wars is doing very well despite what some blogs and YouTube channels want to push in order to keep feeding a rabid fanbase who crave negativity.

 

[crookeddy]

Well, just anecdotally me and my gf are the only people i know that straight up liked tlj. Several people I know thought it was flawed but enjoyable, and the vast majority absolutely despise it. And a couple literally think it's the worst movie ever made.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If TLJ is the worst movie someone has seen then they have lived a blessed life. I've seen some real shit.

For example this.

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And this is art compared to some movies I've seen. My goal is to be the first person to die from a bad movie.

Some people are just adorable when it comes to what they think is the worst.

 

[kirk55555]

Outside of Solo the movies are in an amazing place. For me it sucks that the books are pretty mediocre to bad and neither the books or the comics can tell stories that even slightly matter, and the old EU is still superior to the new canon in my opinion, but for the stuff Kennedy directly effects the most, the movies and (probably) the live action TV stuff coming up, she's generally hitting it out of the park.

I never thought we'd get not just good but great SW movies again, and (again, except for Solo) I've really enjoyed the new movies, and I'm really hyped for The Mandalorian and the obi Wan show. So, I'd say that Kathleen Kennedy is doing a great job.

The only person that ever really "ruined" Star Wars to any extent was George Lucas, and he's long gone.