Is Kai Winn Stupid?

[OtherGene]

In the seventh season episode 'Til Death Do Us Part' a surgically altered Gul Dukat meets Kai Winn and introduces himself as Anjohl Tennan at which point she says something along the lines of "Hello my child, something about the prophets etc etc" when what she should have said was "Hey, when you talk you sound EXACTLY like Gul Dukat and now I come to think about it you resemble him in terms of your height and the way you walk too!"

It's a poor moment in an otherwise great season.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Perhaps learning Bajoran, Winn heard Dukat's natural voice rather than one fed through the UT.

 

[Stephen!]

Maybe she'd never actually encountered Dukat in person before.

 

[Triskelion]

Refresh my memory, had she heard Dukat speak in any episode?

 

[USS Triumphant]

I think it serves the viewer to assume that Dukat is actually more modified than we see him as. Continuing to see him as someone who strongly resembles Dukat has to be an allowance for the audience - otherwise Winn isn't the only stupid one. Many others who should have recognized Dukat interacted with him, also.

 

[OtherGene]

Refresh my memory, had she heard Dukat speak in any episode?

I wondered that but without watching from the very beginning I can't say. But beyond the confines of the episodes surely she would've been aware of who he was and how he talked? I've never met Donald Trump, for example, but if he turned up at my door altered to resemble a Tellarite I think I'd know it was him.

Probably the get-out clause would be the UT and how we hear it isn't the same as how the characters hear it. But even so I groaned internally when I saw where the plot was going with this. And then they bumped uglies too.....

 

[somebuddyX]

Maybe it's like the Clark Kent/Superman thing though, so no one expects Gul Dukat would have a secret identity as some random Bajoran though (or y'know words to that effect). Or it's like the Clerks universe where there's 500 Ben Afflecks and Jason Lees running around, so Gul Dukat, Anjohl, Gul Macet, Tebok all look the same but no one notices.

 

[Stephen!]

Dukat seems to have spent most of time of his time on Terok Nor and Winn was in a prison camp.

http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/508.htm
WINN: I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years and I can remember each and every beating I suffered.

 

[Paradise City]

I would've thought Winn would be accustomed to see him in footage if they had never met. Like the way we are familiar with Hitler without having met him. Dukat, is afterall, the face of the occupation.

Yeah, Dukat going bajoran is a bit Clark Kent-esque for me and the link up between the two villains is a bit forced. All part of not knowing precisely what to do with Dukat once they had written in his fall and his subsequent madness.

 

[OtherGene]

I'd like to point out that I think both Marc Alaimo and Casey Biggs were two of the finest supporting actors ever to appear on any of the Star Trek shows. Two very underrated character actors. And Jeffrey Combs too come to think about it.

 

[Terok Nor]

This is the woman who could have thrown that magic book into the fire caves in an instant but took the time to hold it above her head and inform Dukat that she was about to do it which gave him the chance to incinerate her to death.

Was Kai Winn stupid? You betcha.

 

[Shikarnov]

In the seventh season episode 'Til Death Do Us Part' a surgically altered Gul Dukat meets Kai Winn and introduces himself as Anjohl Tennan at which point she says something along the lines of "Hello my child, something about the prophets etc etc" when what she should have said was "Hey, when you talk you sound EXACTLY like Gul Dukat and now I come to think about it you resemble him in terms of your height and the way you walk too!"

It's a poor moment in an otherwise great season.

I tend to think that Winn wasn't stupid; one does not rise to such power accidentally. Rather, I think she is extremely biased in her viewpoints. And she's not the only one; many people see what they want to see in the people and world/universe around them, and that can have profound influence over both judgement and their action.

Winn rose to power creating a lot of enemies, and generally behaved in a way designed to elevate herself above everybody else. For both reasons, she was probably pretty lonely. Then along comes this person who isn't intimidated, who shows obvious affection, and presents as an equal who actually understands and appreciates her. Seems to me, although the signs of her obvious manipulation were clear, she saw only what she wanted to see.

 

[STEPhon IT]

This is the woman who could have thrown that magic book into the fire caves in an instant but took the time to hold it above her head and inform Dukat that she was about to do it which gave him the chance to incinerate her to death.

Was Kai Winn stupid? You betcha.

Geez, she was definitely not the same manipulative, intellect from the 1st 3 seasons. When Season 4 started she became a numbskull, gotta give props to Ira, Ron, and the writing staff for making Winn and Dukat very one dimensional and losing all the brilliant facets from the previous seasons.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Geez, she was definitely not the same manipulative, intellect from the 1st 3 seasons. When Season 4 started she became a numbskull, gotta give props to Ira, Ron, and the writing staff for making Winn and Dukat very one dimensional and losing all the brilliant facets from the previous seasons.

You must have missed episodes like Indiscretion, Return to Grace, Apocalypse Rising, Things Past, Rapture, By Inferno's Light, In the Cards, Waltz, and Reckoning (assuming, of course, that your comments aren't merely reflexive).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Dukat is a narcissist, so it's easy to imagine him constantly making recordings of himself touting all his generous reforms.

I think Winn was blinded by her own narcissism. She had just been told by the pah'wraiths who she thought were prophets that she was the special one, not Sisko. All she could feel was the catharsis for seven years of jealousy, so she was predisposed to believe anything that fit the story.

 

[kkt]

Others didn't see the resemblance immediately either, the Ranjen for example suspected it eventually but not right away.
Also, remember that as far as Winn believed, the Prophets had told her to expect someone a lot like disguised Dukat. She'd been wanting the Prophets to speak to her all her life, and now they finally had. She was highly motivated to believe them. Smart people can be victim to wishful thinking too.

 

[Six of Twelve]

People tend to see and hear what they expect to see.

During the Revolutionary and Civil Wars, there were quite a few women who disguised themselves as men to enlist to fight, in a time when close physical exams were not conducted at the time of enlistment. The sex of some women was not discovered until they were wounded, while others were able to keep their secret until after the war. It was all part of people seeing what they expected to see.

 

[Lynx]

I like Kai Winn!

A great villain and most of all, she looks like my aunt Signe!

I always refer to her as Winn Signe, not Winn Adami.

 

[OtherGene]

I like Kai Winn!

A great villain and most of all, she looks like my aunt Signe!

I always refer to her as Winn Signe, not Winn Adami.

She was a great villain, for sure, and I always enjoyed Louise Fletchers performances. Her friendly and warm delivery was much more terrifying than any scene chewing from the other more bombast characters. At least if you were up against Gul Dukat you knew what to expect, Kai Winn was capable of anything.

Well, anything except recognising the person responsible for brutalising her people for decades to the point where jumping in the sack with him seemed like a good idea

 

[Takeru]

I've never met Donald Trump, for example, but if he turned up at my door altered to resemble a Tellarite I think I'd know it was him.

If he showed up at your door with a full head of short black hair in an overall and told you with a friendly and a little bit shy demeanor your landlord send him to take a look at the pipes I think it's more likely you'd think he resembles Donald Trump and what a funny coincidence that is, I doubt you'd think "That's Trump in disguise trying to get a look at my toilet".

So I'm giving Winn a pass for not realizing she was dealing with a surgically altered Dukat.