Is it ok to have sex with holograms?

[scotpens]

I think human beings (at times) can be so messed up, that we have to regulate things to protect us from ourselves, especially a new technology.

It’s one thing to regulate things that can potentially cause physical harm, like cars and industrial plants and electrical wiring and building construction. But attempting to regulate the availability of images and ideas is something quite different. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[Nightdiamond]

It’s one thing to regulate things that can potentially cause physical harm, like cars and industrial plants and electrical wiring and building construction. But attempting to regulate the availability of images and ideas is something quite different. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I agree, the more private or intangible the thing the less you want big brother intruding on it.

But honestly, no matter what you introduce into a society, it's bound to be perverted or misused eventually.

It was only a matter of time after the internet got introduced before people began using it to obtain "sinister" type information.

Needless to say, in the libraries and such, you got age restrictions and adults-only computers.

Humans can even make a mess out of simple 2 dimensional images, you can imagine realistic 3 dimensional real to the touch hologram?

You've got the "naturalism" ideology, which you have to admit, if we followed that, the planet (and soccer games) would be in utter chaos.

And then you have the "control your nature" ideology which you may admit, has gotten us very far, but it requires regulation of certain things-laws.
I'm not a fan of too much of either...


I mean why is Romulan Ale or that Bio Mimetic Gel stuff off limits to humans even in the libertarian-like 24th century?

 

[Solarbaby]

No it's wrong. Someone has to mop up the floor at the night shift!

 

[Paradon]

Nah.... I think people tend to over-analyzed and exaggerate the problems quite a bit. Most of the time, people can work things out without anybody's help. When there are problems, they'll eventually resolve it...nothing that can't be fixed; it's not that big of a deal. Nothing last forever...there is always an ending. And it's not going to end up bloody...or in violence. It's not always going to end up that way. It becomes a big deal when somebody wants to make it a big deal by giving bad advice and inappropriately intervene when it is not needed. For example, if they are addicted to sex, they don't go to the government when they could just easily see a doctor.

 

[infinix]

Nah.... I think people tend to over-analyzed and exaggerate the problems quite a bit. Most of the time, people can work things out without anybody's help. When there are problems, they'll eventually resolve it...nothing that can't be fixed; it's not that big of a deal. Nothing last forever...there is always an ending. And it's not going to end up bloody...or in violence. It's not always going to end up that way. It becomes a big deal when somebody wants to make it a big deal by giving bad advice and inappropriately intervene when it is not needed. For example, if they are addicted to sex, they don't go to the government when they could just easily see a doctor.

If people really eventually resolve problems on their own, how do you explain the rampant high profile public shootings we have seen the last couple of decades? or are you saying that those events are suitable resolutions to those gun man's problems? You can't argue for isolated incidents anymore because they really aren't.

I am not advocating automatic jail sentence for indulging in one's own fantasy. That is NOT a good policy. However, I am advocating putting a system in place so that when others come to discover that a particular person is manifesting such extreme dark fantasies, through any means, that we can get that person to a doctor, as you pointed out.

 

[infinix]

But it not too uncommon for some people's sexual fantasies to include rape fantasies, the participants know that it's "pretend," but it's still playing out out an activity that would be illegal and morally wrong if it weren't consensual.

On a holodeck, where is the lack of consent? The individual who instigated the program obviously consents, The non-sapient computer which actual is all the holo-characters doesn't experience any level of injuries. The individual in the holodeck isn't raping a five year old, rather a projection that didn't exist even a few minutes before, any resistance on the "victims" part originates in the computer as part of the program, and not with the projection seemingly present in the holodeck.

Remember, unless the rapist brought a audience in with them, they are completely alone in the holodeck.

While I still think living out such dark fantasies is unhealthy, I concede that when it only involves one real person and is never discovered by another party, there isn't anything we can do about it.

How so? Again in the holodeck you are by yourself, no one else is actual there. If you formulated a unusual or interesting program, you could distribute it to your friends (members of the same holo-rapist club) or put in on a future internet as freeware. Novels come out every year with passages describing rape, major movies the same. Saw the movie "Irreversible" last month, very graphic.

I'm glad someone brought up Irreversible. While the rape scene in the movie is the most visual and horrific ever put on film, the purpose of the scene isn't to indulge a rape fantasy. I would argue that any regular well adjusted adult, after seeing that scene, would be even more revolted at even fantasizing about inflicting that kind of pain on another person.

And what if the person on the holodeck were not the rapist, but instead the rapee? It's still a fantasy involving a rape. Is it still wrong? Is it really so different than a woman with an adult lover closing her eyes and pretending that it her fifth grade teacher?

I never looked at this from that perspective. I can't imagine why anyone fantasize about BEING raped. I have friends who were victims of rape, and I can tell you that these friends are scarred for life because of it.

Unless you're hopelessly delusional (possible), you're fully aware that you're on a holodeck, that the objects surrounding you are mere projections of light and textured force fields.

I just feel like what you do on the holodeck goes way beyond simply pretending. Because ones the simulation starts, you cease having to fantasize about it. When the simulation is running, it is a self-contained reality, for all intents and purposes.

 

[Paradon]

How would YOU like it if somebody hall your ass to jail against your will? When you do that kind of stuff, people naturally feel threatened. This is why it is important not to intervene with unsolicited help.... Can you honestly tell what every person problem is...? Unless you're a telepath! [chuckle] That's the problem with the idea that a government or some naive person can force people to do something against their wishes. That's basically what it is....and to top it off you don't know what the hell is wrong with the person...not really! Unless you keep tap on everyone...which still is impossible to know everything. That is why they need to seek professional help on their own because quite frankly, the government (or someone like you) can't be spending all the resources on every people who are ill and mentally ill. If you are goin to help someone, you bettr be prepared to go all the way because they get really pissed off if you left them in a dump. But that's still unsolicited help that can cause a dangerous backlash....

And...about the whole shooting thing.... Not everyone is a psychopath. Hence, I don't think you should force these sex addicts to do what you want to them to do. People have a way to work things out on their own eventually.... Be it talking about it to someone (if they chose to) or seeking doctors' help. People tend to do different things for reasons that are unknown to you or I. They can choose to reveal it to you if they want, but you don't need to force them to do things they don't want to do and making a big deal out of it. That's why people get pissed off when someone chose to make a big deal and a mockery of their problems and trying to force a solution on them...making it 1,000 times worse. BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, it's not anybody's business. Sometimes the problems are not as bad as you think.... You like to think you know everything. But really...does anybody know anything? Sexual fantasies are normal...but some people get too caught up it...but it doesn't mean they can't resolve it on their own. I think if anyone is going to intervene it should their relatives....not you, or anybody else.

 

[infinix]

Paradon,

Please stop generalizing my VERY SPECIFIC argument about VERY SPECIFIC fantasies.

1. I'm NOT saying we should jail everyone automatically. I'm saying we should get these people psychiatric help. Normal functioning adults do not indulge in or manifest rape/torture/murder fantasies.

2. Obviously not everyone is a psychopath. But if we see warning signs, should we just let them be and leave them alone? If the shooters in the Columbine/VA Tech/Ft. Detrick/Arizona/etc.. had had someone other intervene in their lives sometime before the shooting, wouldn't you think we could have saved some lives? Or are you going to tell me that those people were destined to kill anyway?

 

[Paradon]

You don't get it! People like this are ILLED, and forcing them into therapy isn't going to help...only make it 1,000 times worse, and put their cause 1,000 years back. AND, they are not psychopaths!

HOW WOULD LIKE IT if somebody pretends to know WHAT your problems ARE and hall your ass to jail or force you into therapy? They don't need your help, or anybody else.....

 

[Gov Kodos]

The world will be so much better when folks are punished for having the wrong kind of thinking.

 

[BillJ]

The holo-deck may prove to be a great outlet for folks who aren't quite 'up to code'.

An ability to commit heinous acts in the privacy of the home may prevent these individuals from going out on the streets and doing the same.

I'd rather someone whip up an image of my wife to rape than the same person going out on the street, abducting and raping my wife. Then killing her because of fear of being caught. YMMV.

 

[Paradon]

People like that are miserable.... They look fine if you meet them because they're trying to hide it, but deep down they are hurt. I don't think anybody want to be miserable forever; they'll find a way to deal with their problems to resolve it and eventually move on.... It's not anybody's business, really....

 

[infinix]

You don't get it! People like this are ILLED, and forcing them into therapy isn't going to help...only make it 1,000 times worse, and put their cause 1,000 years back. AND, they are not psychopaths!

HOW WOULD LIKE IT if somebody pretends to know WHAT your problems ARE and hall your ass to jail or force you into therapy? They don't need your help, or anybody else.....

Let's leave jail out of this. So even though you agree people who manifest these very specific extremely dark fantasies are ILLED, you want to simply leave them alone and just hope things work out for the better?

And when did rape/torture/murder fantasies become a cause?? Surely you are not equating this discussion with equal rights for the LGBT community.

Personally, if a coworker or friend of mine constantly writes vivid stories about coming to school or work with an assault rifle and killing everyone in sight, and showed me those stories, I will definitely try to help him/her. And I only hope you would do the same.

**I will not go nor do I recommend snooping in other people's life. The key here is that they took the initiative to share those dark fantasy with others.**

 

[Paradon]

Share those feelings with you...! [laugh]

Most of those people hide these things from people.... It's the narsascistic type that goes around boasting about what they are going to do and what they've done to people.... They're not the same type of people.

With your logic anyone can commit murder and rape on a whim.... [chuckle] People just don't do that.... Even psychopaths need a strong motive to commit hainious crimes, like, murder and rape...some of them are emotionally and psychologically compromised because they were victims of abuse when they were kids.

 

[infinix]

People like that are miserable.... They look fine if you meet them because they're trying to hide it, but deep down they are hurt. I don't think anybody want to be miserable forever; they'll find a way to deal with their problems to resolve it and eventually move on.... It's not anybody's business, really....

What if the way they finally chose to deal with it is to take a weapon and go shoot up the school or mall or work place? Then it becomes everybody's business. It has happened numerously times before.

Do you want to take that chance? With the premise that their dark fantasies are already spilling out of the private lives in the form of online posts and/or stories that they share with other people?

 

[infinix]

Share those feelings with you...! [laugh]

Most of those people hide these things from people.... It's the narsascistic type that goes around boasting about what they are going to do and what they've done to people.... They're not the same type of people.

With your logic anyone can commit murder and rape on a whim.... [chuckle] People just don't do that.... Even psychopaths need a strong motive to commit hainious crimes, like, murder and rape...some of them are emotionally and psychologically compromised because they were victims of abuse when they were kids.

Go back and look at all of the infamous shootings that I brought up. In each and everyone of those cases, there were plenty of warning signs, but those warning signs were ignored, just as you are advocating. You are right, people usually don't murder on a whim. There will always be warning signs along the way. But your stance is to just let it slide.

If these people are emotionally and psychologically compromised because they were victims, then shouldn't they get help?

 

[scotpens]

I mean why is Romulan Ale or that Bio Mimetic Gel stuff off limits to humans even in the libertarian-like 24th century?

In the case of Romulan ale, I’m sure it’s purely a political matter, like Cuban cigars.

 

[Paradon]

You don't get it! People like this are ILLED, and forcing them into therapy isn't going to help...only make it 1,000 times worse, and put their cause 1,000 years back. AND, they are not psychopaths!

HOW WOULD LIKE IT if somebody pretends to know WHAT your problems ARE and hall your ass to jail or force you into therapy? They don't need your help, or anybody else.....

And when did rape/torture/murder fantasies become a cause?? Surely you are not equating this discussion with equal rights for the LGBT community.

I DIDN'T say rape and murder fantasies.... I MEANT whatever they are trying to get out of it, along with everything else that is going on in their lives....

Seriously...people's lives and their problems are far more complicated than what YOU and some people think.... YOU can't just wave it away with a magic wand.... That's also the whole idea behind "Prime Directive", that are often ignored.

 

[Paradon]

Share those feelings with you...! [laugh]

Most of those people hide these things from people.... It's the narsascistic type that goes around boasting about what they are going to do and what they've done to people.... They're not the same type of people.

With your logic anyone can commit murder and rape on a whim.... [chuckle] People just don't do that.... Even psychopaths need a strong motive to commit hainious crimes, like, murder and rape...some of them are emotionally and psychologically compromised because they were victims of abuse when they were kids.

Go back and look at all of the infamous shootings that I brought up. In each and everyone of those cases, there were plenty of warning signs, but those warning signs were ignored, just as you are advocating. You are right, people usually don't murder on a whim. There will always be warning signs along the way. But your stance is to just let it slide.

If these people are emotionally and psychologically compromised because they were victims, then shouldn't they get help?

Mentally illed people and psychopaths are not the same! Mentally illed people don't necessarily harm people...unless, of course, they're psycho, too.....

 

[JayOwl]

I DIDN'T say rape and murder fantasies

Isn't that the current topic of this thread?