Is it just me, or do half of the TNG main characters lack any definite personality traits?
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Data and Q were both interesting and entertaining.
But Worf was wonderful. I think that Michael Dorn was very subtle in his portrayal. There was always so much going on in Worf's mind. Those little eye-rolls under his heavy brow, made me feel like I understood him when his colleagues didn't notice. His character was underused. He brought the Klingon's alive.
I would love a Worf series.
But Worf was wonderful. I think that Michael Dorn was very subtle in his portrayal. There was always so much going on in Worf's mind. Those little eye-rolls under his heavy brow, made me feel like I understood him when his colleagues didn't notice. His character was underused. He brought the Klingon's alive.
I would love a Worf series.
Wasn't there an episode where he literally screwed his way to freedom?
Yes there was....... The title escapes me but that's exactly what he did.
Was it ''First Contact''?
Lately (on VOY especially), it seems as if Trek has been reduced to ticking off boxes without giving people much to do ("OK, we've got the black guy, the Hispanic woman, the Asian guy, and the Native American ... Check, check, check").
I don't think it's a checking off of boxes, but rather following a Star Trek formula of having crew of different backgrounds, like the original series(All-American, Alien Vulcan, southerner, Russian, Scotsman, Japanese, central African)
If anything, Voyager is switching up those boxes. You've got an all-American captain, but female, and maybe a little more cultured than Kirk.
There's an Hispanic woman, but she's a Klingon, and they really don't ever call any attention to her being Hispanic. Even when we meet her dad, you wouldn't know he's Hispanic(actually maybe he's not, which would mean she's not).
There's an African American on the crew, but actually he's not. He's a full-blooded Vulcan alien.
Then there's a Native American, but since when are Native Americans on diversity checklists? I've read numerous times that Chakotay was really popular among native American audiences, as he was one of the only ones on a big tv show back then.
We also find out that he's actually a native central American.
I believe Ensign Kim is supposed to be an American of Chinese or Korean descent. He didn't always get a lot to do, especially in the later seasons, but it wasn't because he was chosen for a checklist then forgotten. He just wasn't a very good character to write for(or apparently, a very good actor to write for either).
Buy even ensign Kim always had a few episodes per season focused on him.
And the rest are aliens, or Seven, or the hologram. There might be a smarmy sarcastic guy I'm leaving out.
I think "Kim" is a Korean family name.
Yup. Even Khan in Space Seed had a diverse crew - remember when he was trying to get his crew to respond on the intercom and he called out a series of surnames? It was very intentionally multi-ethnic. "Rodriguez? Ling? McPherson?? Anyone, report status!"
Yup. Even Khan in Space Seed had a diverse crew - remember when he was trying to get his crew to respond on the intercom and he called out a series of surnames? It was very intentionally multi-ethnic. "Rodriguez? Ling? McPherson?? Anyone, report status!"
You have a ship full of people with jobs to do. They're not going to be able to ever adequately focus on everyone, so some people will be at their consoles mostly quietly doing their jobs. This isn't a VOY thing, its just the nature of the show.
How long did it take for Uhura or Sulu to get first names?
I disagree that Riker hated Data. He was mortified by being forced to prosecute Data in "The Measure of a Man."Riker definitely hated Data, even into season 6 there are a couple scenes where he's annoyed by the droid. I always got the impression Riker was more a people person, and as long as it wasn't Ro.Which is sad as I thought they made a great married couple .
I do agree that Will Riker's character didn't get a lot of development, so much so that Tom Riker had more development with very little visibility.
Actually agree with that.
TBH, of course VOY was free from direct Rodenberrian influences when setting up the characters, so I suppose there was a bit more room for exploiting quirks and even occasional missteps of (or conflicts between) main characters.
When you think about it, I agree, they were lacking in truly distinctive characterization. But I think that was a strength for the show. Most sitcoms and television dramas focus on that. Characters who are neurotic, depressed, angry, thrill-seekers, damaged goods, etc. TNG was more about focusing on other people from different civilizations and societies as well as the strange situations and findings the Enterprise crew would come across. There's a scene in "Thine Own Self" where Gia asks an amnesiac Data "she went to a beautiful place... where everything is peaceful, and everyone loves each other, and no one ever gets sick. Do you think there's really a place like that?" Data looks up to the stars and responds, "I do," which is implying that life aboard the Enterprise is comparable to that, at least from the point of view of someone from the past or a pre-industrial society. That's what I personally liked about TNG. The crew characters were generally all good people and they got a long and were decent to one another. That was truly refreshing compared to other shows at the time or even real life.
I didn't like the introduction of Barclay although it did address how there are those who might not fit in, even in an ideal society. But he just came across as way too neurotic and comedic. And what made it worse was that this enlightened crew of people even gave him a demeaning nickname behind his back. A teenager like Wesley doing that, I can understand. But I'd expect Riker and Geordi to be better than that. But of course, it serves the learning lesson of the story, which turned out to be really good. I think when it serves a purpose like that, it works. When it's played just for comedic effect like in "Genesis" it's just lame.
Ro Laren's introduction aboard the ship was probably a necessary shakeup, at least if it was only confined to the episodes that required it. There was a hint at a possible future romance between her and Riker which would have been far more interesting than him and Imazadi, IMO.
Geordi did at times feel like he was just the knowledgable brain, complete with glasses. He wasn't exciting. But that might explain his friendship with Data. Data felt a bit like an outsider, and maybe Geordi was the brainy "nerd," complete with an inability to get women. Geordi could relate.
Beverly was the most dull, but she was likable and friendly. She was also the most vocal when it came to addressing problematic issues with Picard. I could never, ever see a romance between her and Picard, which makes her jealousy towards Lt. Daren make total sense. Daren was the much more interesting and challenging partner for Daren.
Troi happened to be the most attractive character on the show so that distracts some viewers from any weakness in character personality. I personally liked her character when she was just the really empathetic counselor. However, when she got more playful and challenging towards Worf, I felt that was a good step in the right direction.
Overall, I don't feel that the way these characters were written were a weakness considering what the show was about. I think that's what made it standout from everything else out there.
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Okay let me try and address some of the points that you'ver raised here
"Riker: Starts out a horndog that will screw anything. Ends up getting somewhat "domesticated" over the course of the show, which is something of an arc. But we never really get much insight into who he is as a person."
Really? That's NOT how he starts out at all. In the beginning, Riker is a young, idolistic first officer who is trying to impress his new captain in EAF. He doesn't really become "a horndog"; he's more of a ladies man than a horndog . Again i repeat, he is a ladies' man. different thing altogther. WE do get an insight into whole he is as a person in The Icarus Factor when his dad comes aboard the Enterprise and we learn that their relationship hasn't been that great since his mother died but which they managed to resolve at the end of that episode.
We also discover that he and Troi had a previous relationship before the both joined the enterprise too. That's a nice character arc for both of those characters throughout the course of the series.
"Geordi: Basically his only definable trait beyond his blindness and his work is that he's horrible with women."
Geordi's main character traitis that he's loyal to the ship and crew. The most obvious example of this is in the episode "The Arsenal of Freedom" which is a great character piece for him. The relationship between him and Data was great. Really loved that friendship between those two. Also, Geordi's not horrible with women either. He's just a little bit shy and maybe a little bit socially awkward around them too.
"Troi: Similar to Beverly, there's not really much you can point to with her that is consistent in her character. Her role on the ship and her "superpowers" are somewhat less mutable I suppose, but that's not the same thing as a character."
Empathy and compassion are not superpowers. Do you even know what psychotherapy actually is and how difficult it is to try and understand it? I've tried to understand it and it's pretty difficult to say the least. Troi was definately the most difficult character to write for in the first season I believe and she was actually nearly dropped from the show at the end of the first season but she managed to stay thanks to Denise Crosby quitting towrds the end of that first season.
I personally believe that what I feel the writers of TNG should have focused more on Troi as a person instead of an empath in the initial years of the show. It would have been nice to have seen her reading a romance novel or something like that in additonal to all those workouts that she did with Beverley. It would also have been really nice to have seen a few scenes between those two.
I don't agree with all of your points but I do agree with some. The characters on TNG were pretty rough to start with but they all did eventually grow over the course of the series but maybe that's the point as to why they had such character development at the start.
"Riker: Starts out a horndog that will screw anything. Ends up getting somewhat "domesticated" over the course of the show, which is something of an arc. But we never really get much insight into who he is as a person."
Really? That's NOT how he starts out at all. In the beginning, Riker is a young, idolistic first officer who is trying to impress his new captain in EAF. He doesn't really become "a horndog"; he's more of a ladies man than a horndog . Again i repeat, he is a ladies' man. different thing altogther. WE do get an insight into whole he is as a person in The Icarus Factor when his dad comes aboard the Enterprise and we learn that their relationship hasn't been that great since his mother died but which they managed to resolve at the end of that episode.
We also discover that he and Troi had a previous relationship before the both joined the enterprise too. That's a nice character arc for both of those characters throughout the course of the series.
"Geordi: Basically his only definable trait beyond his blindness and his work is that he's horrible with women."
Geordi's main character traitis that he's loyal to the ship and crew. The most obvious example of this is in the episode "The Arsenal of Freedom" which is a great character piece for him. The relationship between him and Data was great. Really loved that friendship between those two. Also, Geordi's not horrible with women either. He's just a little bit shy and maybe a little bit socially awkward around them too.
"Troi: Similar to Beverly, there's not really much you can point to with her that is consistent in her character. Her role on the ship and her "superpowers" are somewhat less mutable I suppose, but that's not the same thing as a character."
Empathy and compassion are not superpowers. Do you even know what psychotherapy actually is and how difficult it is to try and understand it? I've tried to understand it and it's pretty difficult to say the least. Troi was definately the most difficult character to write for in the first season I believe and she was actually nearly dropped from the show at the end of the first season but she managed to stay thanks to Denise Crosby quitting towrds the end of that first season.
I personally believe that what I feel the writers of TNG should have focused more on Troi as a person instead of an empath in the initial years of the show. It would have been nice to have seen her reading a romance novel or something like that in additonal to all those workouts that she did with Beverley. It would also have been really nice to have seen a few scenes between those two.
I don't agree with all of your points but I do agree with some. The characters on TNG were pretty rough to start with but they all did eventually grow over the course of the series but maybe that's the point as to why they had such character development at the start.
Have been giving TNG a big rewatch the last few weeks and have been looking at the crew a bit differently this time around.
LaForge I loved as a kid and still do and I dont see his lack of eccentricity as a lack of personality and am really suprised by the dislike of him here.
Riker has a sense of adventure and is quite vocal and usually mistrusting and cautious when it comes to situations and people but yet I cant shake the feeling we never fully find out what he stands for
Beverley certainly has personality and character
And Troi is an absloute pain rewatching as an adult with a more critical eye and agree with above that her friendship with Bev should have been explored more
Wesley also pain
And Polaski I like alot more watching now
LaForge I loved as a kid and still do and I dont see his lack of eccentricity as a lack of personality and am really suprised by the dislike of him here.
Riker has a sense of adventure and is quite vocal and usually mistrusting and cautious when it comes to situations and people but yet I cant shake the feeling we never fully find out what he stands for
Beverley certainly has personality and character
And Troi is an absloute pain rewatching as an adult with a more critical eye and agree with above that her friendship with Bev should have been explored more
Wesley also pain
And Polaski I like alot more watching now
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