Is it just me, or do half of the TNG main characters lack any definite personality traits?
- Thread starter eschaton
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Thank the gods someone else likes Q.
Q was one of my favourite things in TNG
Are those double entendres?
No they are not meant that way. I was comparing Chakotay to a block of pine and well the pine wins every time, it's also more practical.
Yeah, you can pretty much ditch Crusher and Geordi from the line-up and the show's quality isn't hurt in any way. I think Troi works because Marina Sirtis works with awful material to try and bring life to the character and just about barely succeeds against the odds.
Riker is great, but for the exact opposite reasons the writers intended - everything he says and does makes him seem like an oblivious and ignorant dick who shouldn't be first officer of an ice cream truck, let alone a Galaxy-class starship. He's genuinely nasty to people for no reason, every time he's put in command of anything it turns into a complete and total disaster (shoutout to the time he LOST THE ENTERPRISE to ABOUT THREE FERENGI in Rascals - and this was about an hour after he took command), he's completely horrible towards Troi to the point where it really does a great deal for her character simply because you feel so bad for her having to put up with him, and he doesn't appear to even know what his job is - half the time he just repeats things people have already told him, or makes absolutely worthless suggestions that Picard has to gently shoot down. On top of all that, every time there's a remotely tense situation, he immediately looks like he's about to cry as he barks "SHELDS!! RED ALERT!" at the first sign of danger. I always wondered if Frakes played him that way on purpose.
My favourite Riker moment is when he immediately goes on a power trip the instant Ro beams aboard and orders her to take her earring off. I know that was written before the massive cultural and religious significance of the Bajoran earring was concocted for DS9, but it's just a fantastic moment in retrospect. Totally blind to Bajoran culture, needlessly hostile to someone who's just arrived on the ship, desperately trying to impress his non-existent authority on a person he's just met - that's Riker.
I would have liked Pulaski to stay and for O'Brien to have a greater role in engineering (which also brings in Keiko, who I always thought had the potential to be interesting).
Riker is great, but for the exact opposite reasons the writers intended - everything he says and does makes him seem like an oblivious and ignorant dick who shouldn't be first officer of an ice cream truck, let alone a Galaxy-class starship. He's genuinely nasty to people for no reason, every time he's put in command of anything it turns into a complete and total disaster (shoutout to the time he LOST THE ENTERPRISE to ABOUT THREE FERENGI in Rascals - and this was about an hour after he took command), he's completely horrible towards Troi to the point where it really does a great deal for her character simply because you feel so bad for her having to put up with him, and he doesn't appear to even know what his job is - half the time he just repeats things people have already told him, or makes absolutely worthless suggestions that Picard has to gently shoot down. On top of all that, every time there's a remotely tense situation, he immediately looks like he's about to cry as he barks "SHELDS!! RED ALERT!" at the first sign of danger. I always wondered if Frakes played him that way on purpose.
My favourite Riker moment is when he immediately goes on a power trip the instant Ro beams aboard and orders her to take her earring off. I know that was written before the massive cultural and religious significance of the Bajoran earring was concocted for DS9, but it's just a fantastic moment in retrospect. Totally blind to Bajoran culture, needlessly hostile to someone who's just arrived on the ship, desperately trying to impress his non-existent authority on a person he's just met - that's Riker.
I would have liked Pulaski to stay and for O'Brien to have a greater role in engineering (which also brings in Keiko, who I always thought had the potential to be interesting).
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I feel that a big part of the problem is the characters were designed, imho, more as gimmicks than characters. A blind helmsman, a telepath, Captain who doesn’t like kids and was best friends with the late husband of the doctor, young, Kirk-like tough first officer, genius boy wonder, android who wants to be alive.
Again, my opinion was the most interesting characters were the ones who weren’t all that fleshed out, but the plots allowed their personalities to develop organically, giving the actors much to work with, such as Worf, and O’Brien, the two most interesting characters, imho.
As time progressed, the other main characters got more ways to develop their characters, but it was a slow process getting past their tropes, especially in the beginning.
Again, my opinion was the most interesting characters were the ones who weren’t all that fleshed out, but the plots allowed their personalities to develop organically, giving the actors much to work with, such as Worf, and O’Brien, the two most interesting characters, imho.
As time progressed, the other main characters got more ways to develop their characters, but it was a slow process getting past their tropes, especially in the beginning.
i just finished rewatching TMP and it's interesting seeing what MIGHT have been with the Decker and Ilia characters vs Riker and Troi. Decker is in many ways more compelling for the limited screen time he gets than Riker. He's already a captain. He's not someone that would stall his career over getting comfy on the big new ship (which is odd really.. Riker was perfectly willing to dump Troi for his career). He would have had some interesting backstory in regards to his father. (pity that Collins is a goddamned creep, the man can act and he was really great in Tales of the Gold Monkey. I digress.) He shows extreme self discipline when being treated unfairly over and over by a rusty Kirk who nearly gets them killed. Riker on the other hand, apart from his hero worship of the cult of Picard, is rude to superiors and doesn't pay much heed to the chain of command. Decker is self sacrificing. He ended up giving up his humanity for a chance to finally be with what was at least the memories of his loved one. Riker was content to have Troi be a work spouse until she was done dating anyone datable on the ship.
Hell, Riker's transporter clone is more interesting than Riker.
Ilia did not have as much time on screen, not as Ilia anyway, so comparing her to her replacement, Troi, is more problematic. She did not get the empathy gimmick. TNG writers would have had to have included a "I sense danger, captain!" as she was being zapped by the vger plasma beam.
Hell, Riker's transporter clone is more interesting than Riker.
Ilia did not have as much time on screen, not as Ilia anyway, so comparing her to her replacement, Troi, is more problematic. She did not get the empathy gimmick. TNG writers would have had to have included a "I sense danger, captain!" as she was being zapped by the vger plasma beam.
Interestingly, the transporter clone also ended up dumping Troi for his career.
I think Riker can be rehabilitated for anyone just by watching season 2.
When Riker tells her to remove the earring, it has nothing to do with him being blind to her culture. It has to do with her as an officer. She did some terrible thing that got a bunch of people killed, was court martialed, imprisoned, and now they are being ordered to take her along as a key player in a dangerous mission. Riker is not going to allow her any luxury or freedom on his ship.
I think Riker can be rehabilitated for anyone just by watching season 2.
and then he betrayed his uniform to be a Maquis. That had to not-help Will's career. Everyone could infer that with slightly different circumstances Will would have done the exact same thing because he almost the same person.
Not so sure about that. One of the main reasons he stated for doing it was that he was desperate to create his own path and be remembered as his own man, apart from his counterpart. Will didn't have those issues.
in that universe only Will would know if he was tempted due to ideology to go Maquis, but regardless, he'd be suspected and watched closely. Why wasn't he given a command during the Dominion War? The attrition rate on good experienced command officers like Riker must have been terrible. And certainly he has his ambition only for Enterprise, whatever alphabet letter is tacked on, but he doesn't get his own command until long after the war is over.
It's absurd - putting aside the religious significance (nobody would be asked to remove religious headwear, for example), it comes across as a ludicrously petty and totally inept act of posturing, especially since Picard acts much more reasonably towards her. Riker might as well have complained about her hairstyle.
She's treated like a convicted criminal/inmate, or worse yet, an officer who has betrayed their code. Picard is much more reserved than Riker, but he has the same feelings on Ro.
Tom Paris is treated similarly. Those officers who knew what happened think he's scumbag, like they thought Ro was a scumbag.
Also, Ro eventually redeems herself, wins their trust, and is allowed to wear the earring. She is even pardoned for her crime.
Tom Paris is treated similarly. Those officers who knew what happened think he's scumbag, like they thought Ro was a scumbag.
Also, Ro eventually redeems herself, wins their trust, and is allowed to wear the earring. She is even pardoned for her crime.
And yet Riker let Worf wears his sash
and he let Ro wear the earring
I thought that he had her remove her earing by his orders.
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There would have been a high attrition rate for ships too, where was Riker to go?
Command of a Defiant class?
Maybe Riker egotistically continued to refuse various smaller commands because he wasn't being offered the equivalent of a super-carrier.
Riker was really selfish.
Picard was a good teacher, imagine how many first officers he could have trained in those years if Riker did move on.
Picard was a good teacher, imagine how many first officers he could have trained in those years if Riker did move on.
LaForge's character changed after season one, IMO. Initially, Roddenberry described LaForge in an early interview as being a bit "flip," almost to the point of being irreverent, and he was indeed like that in early episodes. He was even a bit gregarious at times, once even letting out a boisterous "Ooooowie!" and a fist pump when he heard an idea he liked. But it was kinda after he became chief engineer that he became the more straight-laced LaForge that most of us remember him as.
Crusher always struck me as very vanilla from the get-go, and I think that is essentially her character (in sharp contrast to McCoy's). She was basically a working mom who was passionate about her work, but didn't have much of a life outside of work. One could argue that after the death of Jack, work and Wesley became Crusher's primary focus. Her later relationship with Picard may have began solely as a private physical attraction that evolved into a genuine friendship over time.
Crusher always struck me as very vanilla from the get-go, and I think that is essentially her character (in sharp contrast to McCoy's). She was basically a working mom who was passionate about her work, but didn't have much of a life outside of work. One could argue that after the death of Jack, work and Wesley became Crusher's primary focus. Her later relationship with Picard may have began solely as a private physical attraction that evolved into a genuine friendship over time.
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